From: Subhan Tindall <subhan.tindall@rentrakmail.com>
To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
Cc: Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com>,
Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>,
emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Copyright/Distribution questions (Emacs/Orgmode)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 09:40:07 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKKEbDv4UQDcMtx+ki-WuJGSAQCYng4qFrJo3Uxt9e-Q503_9g@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87mwu9fiu0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen@xemacs.org> wrote:
> Subhan Tindall writes:
>
> > Ah, I may see your error here Jambunathan. Copyright becomes attached
> > to a work the moment in time it is created (at least in the US),
>
> In any jurisdiction implementing the Berne Convention.
True, my assumptions here are that US law are the dominant ones in this case.
>
> > and publication has no bearing on it's existence or assignment.
> > The assignment of rights for "changes and enhancements to the
> > program " <insert progname here> covers the rights to created
> > material from *the moment the code is written*,
>
> No, that's false. Copyright law knows nothing of whether the material
> was written "to be part of", or even contains parts of, Emacs[1], and
> therefore a generic assignment cannot cover code until it is
> contributed *to* Emacs, explicitly by the author inserting a "part of
> Emacs" statement, explicitly by substituting the FSF for himself in
> the copyright notice, or (perhaps, I'm not sure what would happen if
> you maintained your own copyright notice in this case) implicitly by
> committing it personally to a repository of code (not necessarily a
> VCS, but any archive) that is considered "part of Emacs." (You are
> correct in that distribution of the code or presence in "the official"
> Emacs repo are not necessary, of course.)
>
> For example, the FSF has no claim on my ~/.xemacs/init.el, though it
> contains generic enhancements to XEmacs (the code base for which my
> assignment was explicitly designated) that I will probably contribute
> in the future.
>
> On the contrary, I could write an accounting program in 6502
> assembler, send appropriate documentation to the FSF copyright clerk
> indicating that I consider it to be part of (my version of ;-) XEmacs,
> and my assignment for that program would take effect.
>
> I don't claim that either of these extreme examples is at all similar
> to the cases of ox-html and ox-odt.
Again, all true, *copyright* law does not hold any concept of intent. However,
the *assignment of copyright* in the FSF contract does cary an
implication of intent. The 'reasonable person' standard
of determining intent would be potentially relevant here as follows:
1) work is created - copyright (in US) immediately comes into existence
2) previously signed FSF copyright assignment form potentially
transfers copyright for works created
to be included in X
3) question: was work created with intent to be included in X? if so,
than transfer in 2) applies
4) if disputed, one important test to apply is the 'reasonable person'
standard - what would a reasonable person
judge the intent in 1) to be?
Example.
I sign a copyright assignment form in order to work on project X. I
then write code to enhance or fix errors in X.
A reasonable person would most likely determine that my intent was add
this code to project X, therefore
my copyright was transferred upon it's creation as part of the
contract I signed.
>
> > A similar situation is a work made for hire.
>
> Yes, it is similar to a work made for hire in that the scope of the
> work for hire is specified, either in a standalone contract, or by
> order of your employer.
>
> Jambunathan is claiming that he has not yet designated this work as
> within the scope of Emacs, but he may be ignorant of the legal
> implications of committing code to certain repositories. On the other
> hand, a court might construe his ignorance to mean that no intent to
> contribute was present. I think that's strained; at the present time
> org-mode code is "tracked" to be included in Emacs and I suppose he
> knew that when he committed. But AFAIK -- IANAL/TINLA -- a court
> *might* be sympathetic to him.
Again, see 'reasonable person' standard.
>
> > For example, I work on many programs for my employer. As part of
> > my contract, all copyright for that work is ceded to my employer.
>
> Correct in the U.S., I believe, but that is an employment contract,
> and a quite different matter, because it covers *your professional
> activities* and the product *of those activities* (in some cases, 24
> hours a day whether on premises or not). An assignment of Emacs code,
> extant and to be written, to the FSF is *not* an employment contract.
> It is merely a convenient way to perform an indefinite number of
> assignments with one signature (at least, that's what my lawyer told
> me).
Not so different. The FSF copyright assignment is a legally binding
contract, and should
be treated as such. It's not just a convenience.
>
>
> Footnotes:
> [1] Of course the "parts of Emacs" are presumably copyright FSF, *but
> the changes and enhancements are not* (yet).
>
--
Subhan Michael Tindall | Software Developer
| smt@rentrakmail.com
RENTRAK | www.rentrak.com | NASDAQ: RENT
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-03-12 16:40 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 120+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-03-10 14:56 Copyright/Distribution questions (Emacs/Orgmode) Jambunathan K
2013-03-10 15:04 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-10 22:18 ` Karl Fogel
2013-03-11 1:43 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-11 4:23 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-11 2:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-03-11 3:14 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-11 5:28 ` Carsten Dominik
2013-03-11 6:00 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-11 6:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-11 6:10 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-03-11 6:41 ` Germán A. Arias
2013-03-11 7:38 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-03-11 12:53 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-11 14:39 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-03-11 15:52 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-11 17:58 ` Richard Stallman
2013-03-11 19:12 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-11 19:52 ` Subhan Tindall
2013-03-12 2:33 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-12 5:05 ` Carsten Dominik
2013-03-12 6:12 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-12 6:23 ` A proposal (ox-html.el/ox-odt.el) Jambunathan K
2013-03-12 17:02 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-03-12 18:38 ` Thomas S. Dye
2013-03-13 8:08 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-03-13 8:18 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-03-12 6:57 ` Copyright/Distribution questions (Emacs/Orgmode) Jambunathan K
2013-03-12 16:40 ` Subhan Tindall [this message]
2013-03-12 16:59 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-13 1:37 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-13 2:04 ` William Gardella
2013-03-13 18:32 ` Richard Stallman
2013-03-13 18:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-03-14 22:30 ` Richard Stallman
2013-04-01 8:32 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-01 21:06 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-04-01 21:35 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-02 13:22 ` Allen S. Rout
2013-04-03 0:06 ` Richard Stallman
2013-04-03 6:50 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 8:05 ` Bastien
2013-04-03 8:16 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 8:32 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-04-03 8:46 ` Bastien
2013-04-03 9:23 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-04-03 9:58 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-04-03 10:40 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-04-03 14:39 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-03 16:09 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 16:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-03 16:25 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 16:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-03 16:40 ` Timur Aydin
2013-04-03 16:43 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 16:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-03 17:04 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 17:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-03 17:20 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 17:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-03 17:44 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 17:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-03 18:27 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-04-03 18:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-04 1:49 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-04-04 2:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-04 12:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-04-03 23:10 ` Germán A. Arias
2013-04-04 2:31 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-04-04 2:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-04-04 6:16 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-04-03 20:57 ` Emacs community crashes when I try to quit (was: Re: Copyright/Distribution questions (Emacs/Orgmode)) Allen S. Rout
2013-04-03 21:39 ` Emacs community crashes when I try to quit Karl Fogel
2013-04-03 18:09 ` Copyright/Distribution questions (Emacs/Orgmode) W. Greenhouse
2013-04-03 8:36 ` Bastien
2013-04-03 8:42 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-03 15:15 ` J. David Boyd
2013-04-03 15:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-13 19:21 ` Allen S. Rout
2013-03-14 3:08 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-14 11:20 ` Bastien
2013-03-13 22:13 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-14 0:57 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-03-14 10:42 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-14 16:00 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-03-14 17:01 ` Bastien
2013-03-14 17:09 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-03-14 17:56 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-14 18:53 ` Bastien
2013-03-14 19:29 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-14 15:21 ` Richard Stallman
2013-03-14 19:17 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-14 22:31 ` Richard Stallman
2013-03-15 0:42 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-15 6:39 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-03-15 12:49 ` Richard Stallman
2013-03-15 15:54 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-14 2:20 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-14 15:22 ` Richard Stallman
2013-03-14 16:05 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-03-14 16:11 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-03-14 16:13 ` Ivan Andrus
2013-03-12 0:27 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-12 17:00 ` Richard Stallman
2013-03-12 17:48 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-13 1:54 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-03-11 10:09 ` Christian Egli
2013-03-11 14:13 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-12 20:11 ` Glenn Morris
2013-03-12 20:25 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-12 21:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-13 2:36 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-13 3:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-03-13 19:35 ` Karl Fogel
2013-03-14 2:44 ` Jambunathan K
2013-03-14 2:56 ` W. Greenhouse
2013-03-14 18:03 ` Karl Fogel
2013-04-01 8:03 ` Jambunathan K
2013-04-01 8:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
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