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From: "Kévin Le Gouguec" <kevin.legouguec@gmail.com>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>,
	Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 23:54:57 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87y2qhnc9a.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200426172206.GC18629@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Sun, 26 Apr 2020 17:22:06 +0000")

Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> writes:

> org-mode is a sledgehammer and the six outline-mode files are mere nuts.
> The org-mode source files are 100 times as big as outline.el.
>
> You do not have to "know" outline-mode to use it.  I certainly don't.
> It is merely text-mode adorned with a few non-essential commands for
> navigating via the outlines.  Anybody who can use Emacs at all can use
> outline-mode.
>
> By contrast, org-mode is a monster.  The learning time for org-mode must
> be non-trivial.

OTOH,

- I don't think I will ever manage to remember any of the keybindings
  for the outline-(show|hide)-… functions, which means I will never be
  able to use the "selective display" feature advertised in
  outline-mode's docstring without a cheatsheet.

- With org-mode, I can simply TAB my way through a document without
  figuring out whether what I want to show/hide are entries, subtrees,
  children, branches, leaves, sublevels, bodies…

So, while I agree that org-mode is a sledgehammer for e.g. idly browsing
NEWS, from a user's point-of-view (at least this user) and to borrow
your terms, outline-mode "is a monster" with countless esoteric
keybindings; meanwhile, I definitely don't "have to know" org-mode to
use it; I just mindlessly hit TAB on the thing I want to show/hide.

As I said in the bug report, to me this looks like a good opportunity to
provide a friendlier section-cycling command for outline-mode; it
boggles my mind that outline-toggle-children isn't bound by default.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-04-26 21:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 77+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-04-26 15:43 Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Stefan Kangas
2020-04-26 16:13 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-26 18:36   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-26 19:52     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-26 20:54       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-26 22:53         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2020-04-26 16:16 ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-04-26 17:22 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-04-26 19:29   ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-26 21:54   ` Kévin Le Gouguec [this message]
2020-04-26 22:09     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-26 22:41       ` Drew Adams
2020-04-27  7:20         ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-04-27 15:23           ` Drew Adams
2020-04-27 15:31             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-27  7:39       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-04-27 14:27         ` Reveal-mode (was: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode) Stefan Monnier
2020-04-27 10:23     ` Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Alan Mackenzie
2020-04-27 11:45       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-04-27 20:30         ` Juri Linkov
2020-04-27 21:24           ` Drew Adams
2020-04-27 23:05           ` John Yates
2020-04-28  2:51           ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-24  6:23             ` Bastien
2020-04-28 15:12           ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-04-28 16:41             ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-04-28 17:56               ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-04-28 19:22                 ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-04-28 23:35             ` Juri Linkov
2020-04-29 10:53               ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-04-29 11:37                 ` Reconciling org-mode idiosyncrasies with Emacs core (was: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode) Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-04-29 12:30                   ` Reconciling org-mode idiosyncrasies with Emacs core Nicolas Goaziou
2020-05-04 10:45                     ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-05-04 14:50                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-05-04 16:14                         ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-05-06 14:54                           ` [PATCH] Make RET and C-j obey `electric-indent-mode' in org-mode (was: Reconciling org-mode idiosyncrasies with Emacs core) Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-05-07 10:48                             ` [PATCH] Make RET and C-j obey `electric-indent-mode' in org-mode Nicolas Goaziou
2020-05-07 12:03                               ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-05-07 12:21                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-05-07 16:45                                   ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-05-07 16:50                                     ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-05-07 19:38                                       ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-05-24  6:25                                         ` Bastien
2020-05-07 13:53                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-07 15:33                               ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-05-24  6:23             ` Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Bastien
2020-05-24  6:18           ` Bastien
2020-04-27 12:14       ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-05-24  6:13   ` Bastien
2020-04-26 18:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-05-24  6:15   ` Bastien
2020-04-27  2:23 ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-27  6:37   ` Michael Albinus
2020-04-27  7:12     ` tomas
2020-04-28  2:49     ` Richard Stallman
2020-04-28  9:40       ` Michael Albinus
2020-04-29  3:30         ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-24  6:16     ` Bastien
2020-04-27  9:59 ` Po Lu
2020-04-27 14:36   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-04-27 14:49     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-29  3:27       ` Howard Melman
2020-04-29  3:52         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-29 13:54           ` Howard Melman
2020-04-29 14:08             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2020-04-29 14:17             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2020-04-29 14:52               ` Howard Melman
2020-04-29 14:03         ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-30 10:25           ` H. Dieter Wilhelm
2020-05-07 21:01           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-08 17:50             ` Yuri Khan
2020-05-08 17:55               ` Stefan Kangas
2020-05-24  6:35             ` Bastien
2020-04-29 17:52         ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-04-29 19:19           ` Howard Melman
2020-04-30  2:24         ` Richard Stallman
2020-05-24  6:04 ` Bastien

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