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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again: Use monospaced fonts less
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 13:24:36 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87pn5ny9e3.fsf@elephly.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87ft6lgw5y.fsf_-_@gnus.org>


Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> One of the reasons Emacs looks kinda old-fashioned is that we use
> monospaced fonts all over the place.  Now, when programming and stuff, a
> monospaced font is preferred, but in other contexts, it looks pretty
> old-fashioned.
>
> So here's my most controversial suggestion ever:
>
> diff --git a/lisp/faces.el b/lisp/faces.el
> index 5b7e0a5aee..e6f65a5901 100644
> --- a/lisp/faces.el
> +++ b/lisp/faces.el
> @@ -2553,6 +2553,7 @@ mode-line-faces
>  (defface mode-line
>    '((((class color) (min-colors 88))
>       :box (:line-width -1 :style released-button)
> +     :inherit variable-pitch
>       :background "grey75" :foreground "black")
>      (t
>       :inverse-video t))
>
> In addition to looking nicer, it means we can fit more data into the
> mode line.

I use variable-pitch for EWW, Info, and Org buffers, so I’m generally
happy to see more uses of variable-pitch where monospace isn’t
necessary.  That said, I think it looks a bit out of place to me,
perhaps because I use a serif font for the variable-pitch face.
Variable pitch looks fine in text buffers to me, but on a single line
surrounded by monospaced text it looks a bit odd.

The modeline would benefit from prettification, of course, such as using
icons instead of the more cryptic “U:-*” indicators etc.  But perhaps
variable pitch isn’t the best way to accomplish prettification here.

Another thing I noticed is that only the active modeline has variable
pitch; perhaps all mode line faces (including mode-line-inactive) need
adjustment?

> Other obvious candidates for variable-pitching are basically any mode
> that displays data in tabular form.  And, of course, the manuals, but
> that'll happen by itself once we move from .info to .html.

Will this move only affect Emacs?  Emacs is still the best Info reader
out there and most GNU packages have manuals in Info format.  Reading
other GNU packages’ Info documentation in Emacs would still look odd,
even if the Emacs manual(s) were to be converted to HTML.

Perhaps it would make sense to augment the Info format with extra
information, so that all Info documentation would look better in all
Info readers.

-- 
Ricardo



  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-10-12 11:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 295+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-09-26 13:38 How to make Emacs popular again James Lu
2020-09-26 13:47 ` Pankaj Jangid
2020-09-26 13:50   ` James Lu
2020-09-26 13:59 ` Philip K.
2020-09-26 14:53   ` Ergus
2020-09-26 16:59     ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 18:26     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-27  2:41       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27 13:16         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28  3:45           ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28 23:29             ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28 23:51               ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-09-30  4:37                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-30  5:26                   ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-10-02  3:45                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02  4:43                       ` Eduardo Ochs
2020-09-30 10:03                   ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01  4:14                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01  7:41                       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-01  8:11                       ` Philip K.
2020-10-02  3:52                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 16:02                           ` dict - " Jean Louis
2020-10-03  2:56                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03  7:47                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-10  3:53                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03  9:00                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10  3:53                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:21                       ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01  4:14                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:22                       ` Jean Louis
2020-09-30 13:59                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01  4:13                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 13:07                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 14:39                         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:53                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 15:11                           ` tomas
2020-10-01 16:15                             ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:30                               ` tomas
2020-10-02  3:53                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-01 14:46                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-10-01 16:21                           ` Jean Louis
2020-10-02  3:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02  7:08                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-02 10:11                               ` Sv: " arthur miller
2020-10-02 16:13                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-02 16:18                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-02 16:33                                   ` Jean Louis
2020-10-03  7:26                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04  3:45                                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04  7:31                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10  3:53                                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-10  7:24                                           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-10-10  7:52                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-10 12:22                                               ` Tomas Hlavaty
2020-10-04  8:56                                         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04  3:38                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02 16:07                             ` Jean Louis
2020-10-03  2:56                               ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-03  8:28                                 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:52                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-02  3:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02  3:52                         ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-02  7:07                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04  3:38                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04  6:57                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04  9:02                                 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04  9:06                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-05  3:14                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-05  5:54                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-06  2:34                                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04  8:25                               ` Dictionaries better be offline - " Jean Louis
2020-10-04  3:38                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-04  7:03                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 10:07                                 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 10:52                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04 13:54                                     ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 14:05                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-05  3:12                                       ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-10  3:53                                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-11  5:37                                   ` How to make Emacs popular again: Use monospaced fonts less Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11  6:28                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11  6:35                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11  7:00                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 10:54                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 11:28                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 13:58                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 22:21                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-12 16:49                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-13  0:38                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13 14:40                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14  4:03                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 14:54                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 17:07                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-14 17:39                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 22:53                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 13:57                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:21                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 14:28                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:48                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 14:52                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 15:00                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 16:25                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 16:50                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 18:31                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15 18:49                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15  6:51                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 12:26                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-15  6:48                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 14:02                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 14:07                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-15 14:24                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-16  5:06                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 13:56                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 22:14                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-11 23:39                                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-12 16:46                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-13  0:35                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13 14:39                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14  4:01                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 14:49                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 13:21                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 14:02                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-11 14:35                                     ` Teemu Likonen
2020-10-11 15:21                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-11 18:29                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 18:58                                         ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-11 19:41                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 19:42                                         ` Drew Adams
2020-10-11 19:56                                         ` Stephen Berman
2020-10-11 21:09                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 22:23                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-11 22:50                                             ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-02 21:06                                             ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-02 22:33                                               ` Stephen Berman
2020-12-03 21:05                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-03 21:06                                                 ` Roland Winkler
2020-12-03 14:48                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-12  9:47                                         ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-12 11:17                                         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-10-12 17:24                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-12 11:24                                     ` Ricardo Wurmus [this message]
2020-10-12 16:30                                       ` Drew Adams
2020-10-12 23:02                                         ` Tim Cross
2020-10-13  0:34                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-13  6:02                                         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-10-13 20:00                                     ` Juri Linkov
2020-10-13 20:36                                       ` Drew Adams
2020-10-14  4:05                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14  7:06                                         ` Protesilaos Stavrou
2020-10-14  7:09                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14  7:46                                             ` Protesilaos Stavrou
2020-10-14  7:53                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14  8:30                                                 ` James Cloos
2020-10-14  9:14                                                   ` tomas
2020-10-14 15:03                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14  8:03                                         ` Juri Linkov
2020-10-14 16:38                                           ` Drew Adams
2020-10-15  6:45                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-10-14 13:21                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-04-12  2:19                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12  7:58                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-12 13:23                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 13:39                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-12 15:27                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 16:40                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-12 17:29                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-04-12 17:51                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-04-13  7:34                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19  3:13                                     ` Robert Weiner
2021-04-19  7:12                                       ` tomas
2021-04-19  7:55                                       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-04-19 12:31                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-04-19 12:48                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-04  8:27                               ` How to make Emacs popular again Jean Louis
2020-10-01 14:08                     ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 15:01                       ` James Lu
2020-10-01 15:03                         ` James Lu
2020-10-01 16:13                           ` GNU Dico - " Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:29                             ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-01 16:39                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:32                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-01 16:41                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 16:55                                 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-10-01 16:44                               ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 15:19                         ` tomas
2020-10-01 15:33                         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-01 16:07                         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-01 19:15                         ` chad
2020-10-02  5:41                           ` Jean Louis
2020-09-29  8:08               ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2020-09-29 11:40                 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-30  4:37               ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 16:30 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 16:51   ` James Lu
2020-09-26 18:06     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-27  2:42       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  8:27         ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-28  3:47           ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 16:54   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 17:36     ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 18:11       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 18:58         ` Jean Louis
2020-09-26 19:26           ` Drew Adams
2020-09-26 19:28           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-26 21:04             ` James Lu
2020-09-27  2:42       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  6:29         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-27  2:42       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  7:32         ` Jean Louis
2020-09-27  7:53           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-28 22:25             ` Jean Louis
2020-09-29 14:11               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-29 15:14                 ` Jean Louis
2020-10-20 13:22                   ` Arthur Miller
2020-10-20 15:46                     ` Jean Louis
2020-10-27  4:14                       ` Arthur Miller
2020-10-27  7:15                         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-22 14:09                     ` Jean Louis
2020-10-22 14:18                       ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-28  3:44           ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-26 19:27   ` Drew Adams
2020-09-27  2:41   ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  2:41   ` tooltip feature Richard Stallman
2020-09-27  9:42     ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-27 10:05       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-27 10:29         ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-27 16:00       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-29  1:07         ` chad
2020-09-27 17:31   ` How to make Emacs popular again Bob Newell
2020-09-27 20:31     ` James Lu
2020-09-28  3:52       ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28  6:05       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-28 22:00       ` Jean Louis
2020-09-27 20:38     ` James Lu
2020-09-27 20:40       ` James Lu
2020-09-28  0:52       ` Bob Newell
2020-09-28  2:48         ` 황병희
2020-09-28 18:12         ` James Lu
2020-09-28  5:27       ` Jean Louis
2020-10-04 21:10     ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-10-07  8:58     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-07 11:21       ` João Távora
2020-10-07 14:28         ` Jean Louis
2020-10-08  4:42         ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-08  9:27           ` João Távora
2020-10-09  3:32             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-08 14:05           ` Georges Ko
2020-10-08 14:13             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-09  3:32             ` Lists of symbols in the Lisp Manual Richard Stallman
2020-10-08 14:22           ` How to make Emacs popular again Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 14:29             ` Robert Pluim
2020-10-08 14:54               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 15:00                 ` Robert Pluim
2020-10-08 15:22                   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 18:08               ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-08 18:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 20:45                   ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-08 20:49                     ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09  6:37                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 21:57                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-08 22:06                     ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:16                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-08 22:36                         ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:41                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
     [not found]                             ` <efa8dd80-e172-4b16-9052-1aaa027c14d9@default>
     [not found]                               ` <834kn37v3p.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-10-09 15:25                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09  6:41                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-09  7:38                     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-09  9:41                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-08 20:38                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 20:39               ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:01                 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 22:21                   ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 22:33                     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-08 22:47                       ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 23:13                         ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-09 22:50                           ` Drew Adams
2020-10-10  0:51                             ` Daniel Martín
2020-10-10  2:15                               ` Drew Adams
2020-10-10  8:52                                 ` Michael Albinus
2020-10-10 16:20                                   ` Drew Adams
2020-10-08 20:45               ` Drew Adams
2020-10-09  3:32             ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-28 18:12   ` James Lu
2020-09-30 18:44   ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-30 20:51     ` Mathias Dahl
2020-10-01 18:51       ` Juri Linkov
2020-09-26 17:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-28  5:16 ` Jean Louis
2020-09-28 11:11   ` Ergus
2020-09-28 21:52     ` Jean Louis
2020-09-28  9:00 ` How to make Emacs popular again [or less square] Po Lu
2020-09-28  9:38   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <<CANQHGB1052fKdSq0=F-PG8hLMC3WX-R3UaMmrHrntG8J3J2pVw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found] ` <<87o8ls1vvq.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]   ` <<20200926145302.sjrwjrguf5ialc25@Ergus>
     [not found]     ` <<3201a9fe-de19-d553-0be1-d379f182fd47@yandex.ru>
     [not found]       ` <<E1kMMdG-0001SA-W2@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]         ` <<84273aa2-24a9-7584-18b9-03a5ac783d62@yandex.ru>
     [not found]           ` <<E1kMk6w-0008Vc-Fr@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <<caa3a750-eb75-7418-2e2d-a805889e18a5@yandex.ru>
     [not found]               ` <<CADs++6idFXfjZnpn-cYi=1PM8XEfF3DnYuyaXy-uEraK06xZqQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                 ` <<E1kNTrx-0004SS-1S@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <<835z7vjrg3.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                     ` <<E1kNpy4-0004bS-JF@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <<83tuvegkmo.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                         ` <<E1kOC7h-0003N9-8B@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                           ` <<83v9ftf6n9.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                             ` <<E1kOurL-0004al-2O@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                               ` <<835z7qfp6h.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                 ` <<E1kR5wn-0002lL-FN@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                                   ` <<87ft6lgw5y.fsf_-_@gnus.org>
     [not found]                                     ` <<1F8F3522-1E6C-40A3-B61A-B9B84FC0AD18@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                       ` <<jwvr1q4ewb0.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                         ` <<83k0vw5091.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-10-11 14:45                                           ` How to make Emacs popular again: Use monospaced fonts less Drew Adams
2020-10-12  2:04                                             ` Richard Stallman
2020-10-11 15:24                                           ` Drew Adams

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