From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ricardo Wurmus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How to make Emacs popular again: Use monospaced fonts less Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 13:24:36 +0200 Message-ID: <87pn5ny9e3.fsf@elephly.net> References: <87o8ls1vvq.fsf@posteo.net> <20200926145302.sjrwjrguf5ialc25@Ergus> <3201a9fe-de19-d553-0be1-d379f182fd47@yandex.ru> <84273aa2-24a9-7584-18b9-03a5ac783d62@yandex.ru> <835z7vjrg3.fsf@gnu.org> <83tuvegkmo.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9ftf6n9.fsf@gnu.org> <835z7qfp6h.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft6lgw5y.fsf_-_@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5838"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 27.1 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 12 13:23:43 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kRvva-0001Q2-U3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 13:23:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42022 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRvvZ-0006wB-Vq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 07:23:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37860) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRvv2-0006Pd-8h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 07:23:08 -0400 Original-Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com ([136.143.188.51]:21195) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kRvuz-0005Yj-Fj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 07:23:07 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1602501781; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=EqITVszGnSkj9ysfkNAcl4uYdTKs26CDNOg3I0U5UrQfo7fCanSPbCp5PGZ7bcgH3P+QlLNI7GW1dXfIHH4vV1PM49fSKTiXIMrm6VU8LqptDQVYgXQXPTSTkO1o2aI1zmE4A74u67hAzxn0ceupYG4+U982X4486fP+Ljw+KFA= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1602501781; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=HpS8s/CEhTKzg6iN3bVD3bkWD+dyvINWE9l/+w2QITY=; b=iZqCi0mGAnOXuZQgbMy6Xb8einl7UWfTCl5sDjZuywlwxykg1vLo/4Oi62uV7LmYfBksCa/kgomJ1Q9DVC/jcnzcwZc3oEawVSpe0o180OJormxnTfcmbxda5Ob6RJmFfSYcNNYIfNdpN8Eoax/X5mmUeUk0pQVnxTeEAbC2cpo= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=elephly.net; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=rekado@elephly.net; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1602501781; s=zoho; d=elephly.net; i=rekado@elephly.net; h=References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; bh=HpS8s/CEhTKzg6iN3bVD3bkWD+dyvINWE9l/+w2QITY=; b=CyGnYB+V1SbkzZK67QPCQxM9gOVHBCk9QwySK+jiAJDQTLbuPVNeVaXDF7OYnMKu QUkLThIyE4/N0mHIrPsmeIF7CcW1tlfjCsDbf7vDNUjNMRxZjzvePinD5SqMFB1T+Qb ivHH/mSO+sF4xxVEsEHqm6RROxK6jj7fHrm+6ZFg= Original-Received: from localhost (p54ad4fe1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.173.79.225]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 160250177193017.712098556791148; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 04:22:51 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <87ft6lgw5y.fsf_-_@gnus.org> X-URL: https://elephly.net X-PGP-Key: https://elephly.net/rekado.pubkey X-PGP-Fingerprint: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6 2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC X-ZohoMailClient: External Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.143.188.51; envelope-from=rekado@elephly.net; helo=sender4-of-o51.zoho.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/12 06:32:13 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257459 Archived-At: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > One of the reasons Emacs looks kinda old-fashioned is that we use > monospaced fonts all over the place. Now, when programming and stuff, a > monospaced font is preferred, but in other contexts, it looks pretty > old-fashioned. > > So here's my most controversial suggestion ever: > > diff --git a/lisp/faces.el b/lisp/faces.el > index 5b7e0a5aee..e6f65a5901 100644 > --- a/lisp/faces.el > +++ b/lisp/faces.el > @@ -2553,6 +2553,7 @@ mode-line-faces > (defface mode-line > '((((class color) (min-colors 88)) > :box (:line-width -1 :style released-button) > + :inherit variable-pitch > :background "grey75" :foreground "black") > (t > :inverse-video t)) > > In addition to looking nicer, it means we can fit more data into the > mode line. I use variable-pitch for EWW, Info, and Org buffers, so I=E2=80=99m general= ly happy to see more uses of variable-pitch where monospace isn=E2=80=99t necessary. That said, I think it looks a bit out of place to me, perhaps because I use a serif font for the variable-pitch face. Variable pitch looks fine in text buffers to me, but on a single line surrounded by monospaced text it looks a bit odd. The modeline would benefit from prettification, of course, such as using icons instead of the more cryptic =E2=80=9CU:-*=E2=80=9D indicators etc. B= ut perhaps variable pitch isn=E2=80=99t the best way to accomplish prettification here. Another thing I noticed is that only the active modeline has variable pitch; perhaps all mode line faces (including mode-line-inactive) need adjustment? > Other obvious candidates for variable-pitching are basically any mode > that displays data in tabular form. And, of course, the manuals, but > that'll happen by itself once we move from .info to .html. Will this move only affect Emacs? Emacs is still the best Info reader out there and most GNU packages have manuals in Info format. Reading other GNU packages=E2=80=99 Info documentation in Emacs would still look od= d, even if the Emacs manual(s) were to be converted to HTML. Perhaps it would make sense to augment the Info format with extra information, so that all Info documentation would look better in all Info readers. --=20 Ricardo