RE: menu-bar-help-menu

RE: menu-bar-help-menu

[Drew Adams]

> > I often find help menu to be very useful.  I think the word "Emacs" is
> > too often shown up in the help menu.  Most of "Emacs" in the help menu
> > could be taken out to read better.  I propose the new help menu as
> > shown below.
> 
> FWIW, I think removing "Emacs" from these items will make their intent
> less clear.  I also don't understand how their presence can make the
> items less readable, can you explain?

Adding "Emacs" all over the place just adds noise, making
it harder to scan and pick out the signal.

Of course, if there is somewhere where a distinction
is important (Emacs vs something else), adding "Emacs"
might help in that case.  But adding it gratuitously
in many places prevents such an exception from standing
out.

Re: menu-bar-help-menu

[Van L]

> Adding "Emacs" all over the place just adds noise, making
> it harder to scan and pick out the signal.

The (info "(dir) Top")
entry for Elisp breaks
the pattern

* Emacs: (emacs).               The extensible self-documenting text editor.
* Emacs FAQ: (efaq).            Frequently Asked Questions about Emacs.
* Elisp: (elisp).               The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual.
* Emacs Lisp Intro: (eintr).    A simple introduction to Emacs Lisp 
                                  programming.

There’s more signal in

* Emacs Lisp: (elisp).          The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual.

menu-bar-help-menu

[Tak Kunihiro]

I often find help menu to be very useful.  I think the word "Emacs" is
too often shown up in the help menu.  Most of "Emacs" in the help menu
could be taken out to read better.  I propose the new help menu as
shown below.


CURRENT                                PROPOSE
-------                                -------
Emacs Tutorial                      -> Tutorial
Emacs Tutorial (choose language)... -> Tutorial (choose language)...
Emacs FAQ                           -> FAQ
Emacs News                          -> News
Emacs Known Problems                -> Known Problems
How to Report a Bug                    How to Report a Bug
Send Bug Report...                     Send Bug Report...
Emacs Psychotherapist               -> Psychotherapist
---                                    ---
Search Documentation                   Search Documentation
Describe                               Describe
Read the Emacs Manual               -> Read the Manual
More Manuals                           More Manuals
Search Build-in Packages               Search Build-in Packages
Finding Extra Packages                 Finding Extra Packages
---                                    ---
Getting New Versions                   Getting New Versions
Copying Conditions                     Copying Conditions
(Non)Warranty                          (Non)Warranty
---                                    ---
About Emacs                            About Emacs
About GNU                              About GNU

Re: menu-bar-help-menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:20:16 +0900 (JST)
> From: Tak Kunihiro <tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp>
> Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp
> 
> I often find help menu to be very useful.  I think the word "Emacs" is
> too often shown up in the help menu.  Most of "Emacs" in the help menu
> could be taken out to read better.  I propose the new help menu as
> shown below.

FWIW, I think removing "Emacs" from these items will make their intent
less clear.  I also don't understand how their presence can make the
items less readable, can you explain?

Re: menu-bar-help-menu

[Tak Kunihiro]

>> I often find help menu to be very useful.  I think the word "Emacs" is
>> too often shown up in the help menu.  Most of "Emacs" in the help menu
>> could be taken out to read better.  I propose the new help menu as
>> shown below.
>
> FWIW, I think removing "Emacs" from these items will make their intent
> less clear.  I also don't understand how their presence can make the
> items less readable, can you explain?

When I click `Help' I suppose that all items would be related with
Emacs.  However, because some items are with explicit "Emacs", I notice
that that is not always the case.  Actually the item `About GNU' is not
directly related with Emacs.

Then it is unclear if `How to report a Bug' and `Send Bug Report...'
are related with Emacs, GNU, or something else.  If "Emacs" is taken
out, it is clear all items expect for `About GNU' are about Emacs.

Re: menu-bar-help-menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tak Kunihiro <homeros.misasa@gmail.com>
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Cc: tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 09:02:28 +0900
> 
> Actually the item `About GNU' is not directly related with Emacs.

Neither is "More manuals".

Re: menu-bar-help-menu

[Tak Kunihiro]

>> Actually the item `About GNU' is not directly related with Emacs.
>
> Neither is "More manuals".

It is true.

Okay!  Although I still think that "Emacs Tutorial" is too obvious, I
stop insisting to take "Emacs" out.

RE: menu-bar-help-menu

[Drew Adams]

> I often find help menu to be very useful.  I think the word "Emacs" is
> too often shown up in the help menu.  Most of "Emacs" in the help menu
> could be taken out to read better.  I propose the new help menu as
> shown below.
> 
> 
> CURRENT                                PROPOSE
> -------                                -------
> Emacs Tutorial                      -> Tutorial
> Emacs Tutorial (choose language)... -> Tutorial (choose language)...
> Emacs FAQ                           -> FAQ
> Emacs News                          -> News
> Emacs Known Problems                -> Known Problems
> How to Report a Bug                    How to Report a Bug
> Send Bug Report...                     Send Bug Report...
> Emacs Psychotherapist               -> Psychotherapist
> ---                                    ---
> Search Documentation                   Search Documentation
> Describe                               Describe
> Read the Emacs Manual               -> Read the Manual
> More Manuals                           More Manuals
> Search Build-in Packages               Search Build-in Packages
> Finding Extra Packages                 Finding Extra Packages
> ---                                    ---
> Getting New Versions                   Getting New Versions
> Copying Conditions                     Copying Conditions
> (Non)Warranty                          (Non)Warranty
> ---                                    ---
> About Emacs                            About Emacs
> About GNU                              About GNU

FWIW, I've done that in my library `menu-bar+.el'
since at least as long ago as 1995.

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MenuBarPlus