* bug#15335: emacs -Q usability
@ 2013-09-11 8:50 Andreas Röhler
2013-09-11 14:17 ` Drew Adams
2020-01-23 13:21 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Röhler @ 2013-09-11 8:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 15335
Emacs -Q opening with scratch buffer is a mistake in most cases.
Please make Emacs star as general purpose Editor, preferably with an empty buffer,
in text- or fundamental mode, where use may see it's input, being offered to save it etc.
See also
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18734848/choosing-an-all-purpose-editor/18735853
Thanks!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#15335: emacs -Q usability
2013-09-11 8:50 bug#15335: emacs -Q usability Andreas Röhler
@ 2013-09-11 14:17 ` Drew Adams
2013-09-11 14:57 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-01-23 13:21 ` Stefan Kangas
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2013-09-11 14:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andreas Röhler, 15335
> Emacs -Q opening with scratch buffer is a mistake in most cases.
> Please make Emacs star[t] as general purpose Editor, preferably with an
> empty buffer, in text- or fundamental mode, where use may see it's input,
> being offered to save it etc.
> See also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18734848/choosing-an-all-
> purpose-editor/18735853
I have some sympathy for this. However, which mode for that (presumably)
new-file buffer? You say text mode or fundamental mode. Perhaps (text,
but not fundamental). But realistically, how much of the time does an Emacs
user use text mode? Yes, the mode could be configurable by the user.
But other editors often open with no such new file/buffer window. TextPad
is a good example. Just as for Emacs, you need to click the `New' icon to
open a new-file buffer. Otherwise, it opens with just an empty editor frame.
Anyway, Emacs now provides multiple possibilities for the startup
appearance & behavior. One of those is `initial-buffer-choice', which you
can customize to a file or directory name. This should get you pretty much
what you are asking, I think.
But the question then is what the default startup should be like. If
`initial-buffer-choice' were by default a `new' buffer name then that
should pretty much give you what you are asking for.
Personally, I think the default startup should be with Dired, in some
default directory that a user can trivially customize. That gives a larger
perspective than does *scratch* or even a new-file buffer. IOW, I'd vote
for `initial-buffer-choice' to be an existing directory name.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#15335: emacs -Q usability
2013-09-11 14:17 ` Drew Adams
@ 2013-09-11 14:57 ` Andreas Röhler
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Röhler @ 2013-09-11 14:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 15335
Am 11.09.2013 16:17, schrieb Drew Adams:
>> Emacs -Q opening with scratch buffer is a mistake in most cases.
>> Please make Emacs star[t] as general purpose Editor, preferably with an
>> empty buffer, in text- or fundamental mode, where use may see it's input,
>> being offered to save it etc.
>> See also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18734848/choosing-an-all-
>> purpose-editor/18735853
>
> I have some sympathy for this. However, which mode for that (presumably)
> new-file buffer? You say text mode or fundamental mode. Perhaps (text,
> but not fundamental). But realistically, how much of the time does an Emacs
> user use text mode? Yes, the mode could be configurable by the user.
>
> But other editors often open with no such new file/buffer window. TextPad
> is a good example. Just as for Emacs, you need to click the `New' icon to
> open a new-file buffer. Otherwise, it opens with just an empty editor frame.
>
> Anyway, Emacs now provides multiple possibilities for the startup
> appearance & behavior. One of those is `initial-buffer-choice', which you
> can customize to a file or directory name. This should get you pretty much
> what you are asking, I think.
>
> But the question then is what the default startup should be like. If
> `initial-buffer-choice' were by default a `new' buffer name then that
> should pretty much give you what you are asking for.
>
> Personally, I think the default startup should be with Dired, in some
> default directory that a user can trivially customize. That gives a larger
> perspective than does *scratch* or even a new-file buffer. IOW, I'd vote
> for `initial-buffer-choice' to be an existing directory name.
>
The question was about the steep learning curve. So I asked, what's in the way for beginners? Why not just start to edit?
Dired already is a thing which needs some learning. An empty buffer not.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#15335: emacs -Q usability
2013-09-11 8:50 bug#15335: emacs -Q usability Andreas Röhler
2013-09-11 14:17 ` Drew Adams
@ 2020-01-23 13:21 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-23 18:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-01-23 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andreas Röhler; +Cc: 15335
Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> writes:
> Emacs -Q opening with scratch buffer is a mistake in most cases.
>
> Please make Emacs star as general purpose Editor, preferably with an empty buffer,
> in text- or fundamental mode, where use may see it's input, being offered to save it etc.
>
> See also
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18734848/choosing-an-all-purpose-editor/18735853
Do new users generally run "emacs -Q" though? I would have assumed
that they either just run "emacs" (probably from a menu somewhere), or
"emacs <file>".
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#15335: emacs -Q usability
2020-01-23 13:21 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2020-01-23 18:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-12 22:44 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2020-01-23 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: 15335
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 14:21:39 +0100
> Cc: 15335@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> writes:
>
> > Emacs -Q opening with scratch buffer is a mistake in most cases.
> >
> > Please make Emacs star as general purpose Editor, preferably with an empty buffer,
> > in text- or fundamental mode, where use may see it's input, being offered to save it etc.
> >
> > See also
> >
> > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18734848/choosing-an-all-purpose-editor/18735853
>
> Do new users generally run "emacs -Q" though? I would have assumed
> that they either just run "emacs" (probably from a menu somewhere), or
> "emacs <file>".
I think this horse has been beaten ad nauseam, and every time we
discussed it, we decided to keep the current behavior. It's time to
put this to rest, IMO.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* bug#15335: emacs -Q usability
2020-01-23 18:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2020-08-12 22:44 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2020-08-12 22:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 15335
tags 15335 + wontfix
close 15335
thanks
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
>> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 14:21:39 +0100
>> Cc: 15335@debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de> writes:
>>
>> > Emacs -Q opening with scratch buffer is a mistake in most cases.
>> >
>> > Please make Emacs star as general purpose Editor, preferably with an empty buffer,
>> > in text- or fundamental mode, where use may see it's input, being offered to save it etc.
>> >
>> > See also
>> >
>> > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18734848/choosing-an-all-purpose-editor/18735853
>>
>> Do new users generally run "emacs -Q" though? I would have assumed
>> that they either just run "emacs" (probably from a menu somewhere), or
>> "emacs <file>".
>
> I think this horse has been beaten ad nauseam, and every time we
> discussed it, we decided to keep the current behavior. It's time to
> put this to rest, IMO.
OK, since there has been no further comments within 28 weeks, I'm
closing this bug as wontfix.
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-08-12 22:44 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-09-11 8:50 bug#15335: emacs -Q usability Andreas Röhler
2013-09-11 14:17 ` Drew Adams
2013-09-11 14:57 ` Andreas Röhler
2020-01-23 13:21 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-23 18:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-08-12 22:44 ` Stefan Kangas
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