From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15335: emacs -Q usability Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <116851da-a40d-4835-858c-cef0c8aa4b85@default> References: <52302EEA.6090805@easy-emacs.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1378909100 4766 80.91.229.3 (11 Sep 2013 14:18:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:18:20 +0000 (UTC) To: Andreas =?UTF-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= , 15335@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 11 16:18:23 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VJlFN-0005NM-6i for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:18:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36206 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJlFM-0006Or-PA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:18:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58225) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJlFC-0006Mv-Gl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:18:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJlF4-0007kJ-Ni for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:18:10 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:47458) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VJlF4-0007kE-KV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:18:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJlF3-00038M-TV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:18:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15335 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15335-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15335.137890903511986 (code B ref 15335); Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:18:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15335) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2013 14:17:15 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55751 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJlEI-00037E-8C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:17:14 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:36649) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VJlEF-00036q-IX for 15335@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 10:17:12 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r8BEH4UC030573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:17:05 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r8BEH2eC029241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:17:03 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r8BEH1Gw012580; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:17:01 GMT In-Reply-To: <52302EEA.6090805@easy-emacs.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:78228 Archived-At: > Emacs -Q opening with scratch buffer is a mistake in most cases. > Please make Emacs star[t] as general purpose Editor, preferably with an > empty buffer, in text- or fundamental mode, where use may see it's input, > being offered to save it etc. > See also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18734848/choosing-an-all- > purpose-editor/18735853 I have some sympathy for this. However, which mode for that (presumably) new-file buffer? You say text mode or fundamental mode. Perhaps (text, but not fundamental). But realistically, how much of the time does an Emacs user use text mode? Yes, the mode could be configurable by the user.=20 But other editors often open with no such new file/buffer window. TextPad is a good example. Just as for Emacs, you need to click the `New' icon to open a new-file buffer. Otherwise, it opens with just an empty editor fram= e. Anyway, Emacs now provides multiple possibilities for the startup appearance & behavior. One of those is `initial-buffer-choice', which you can customize to a file or directory name. This should get you pretty much what you are asking, I think. But the question then is what the default startup should be like. If `initial-buffer-choice' were by default a `new' buffer name then that should pretty much give you what you are asking for. Personally, I think the default startup should be with Dired, in some default directory that a user can trivially customize. That gives a larger perspective than does *scratch* or even a new-file buffer. IOW, I'd vote for `initial-buffer-choice' to be an existing directory name.