Clocking work time vs. office time

Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi list,

I'm seeking ideas/workflows for a situation where I work partly in
office and partly remotely.  I'd like to be able to generate a report
with information about both my work time and "office time".  I know that
you can't have two things clocked at the same time, so simply clocking
"office time" and (during this office time) clocking e.g. individual
tasks won't work.

Any ideas?

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Michael Welle]

Hello,

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> Hi list,
>
> I'm seeking ideas/workflows for a situation where I work partly in
> office and partly remotely.  I'd like to be able to generate a report
> with information about both my work time and "office time".  I know that
> you can't have two things clocked at the same time, so simply clocking
> "office time" and (during this office time) clocking e.g. individual
> tasks won't work.
>
> Any ideas?
I assume that you use a laptop or some other portable device? In that
case you can grep the IP address (which might change when you change
workplaces) and timestamps from the log files (or create a script that
logs the IP address changes to an ORG file) and then somehow (coughcough)
integrate that into your report. 

Regards
hmw

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-29, at 11:21, Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> Hi list,
>>
>> I'm seeking ideas/workflows for a situation where I work partly in
>> office and partly remotely.  I'd like to be able to generate a report
>> with information about both my work time and "office time".  I know that
>> you can't have two things clocked at the same time, so simply clocking
>> "office time" and (during this office time) clocking e.g. individual
>> tasks won't work.
>>
>> Any ideas?
> I assume that you use a laptop or some other portable device? In that
> case you can grep the IP address (which might change when you change
> workplaces) and timestamps from the log files (or create a script that
> logs the IP address changes to an ORG file) and then somehow (coughcough)
> integrate that into your report. 

That's actually an interesting (and not standard) idea.  Even moreso
because I'm writing a RescueTime-like time-tracking tool for Emacs,
working (unlike Org's clocking) without manual intervention - recording
the state of computer (i.e., current idle time, active X window, active
Emacs buffer name and mode) at regular (or not) intervals and making
reports.  I did not include any network-related info, but this would be
easy to add.  Thanks, I'll definitely think about it!

> Regards
> hmw

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Brett Viren]

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Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> On 2016-04-29, at 11:21, Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>> I assume that you use a laptop or some other portable device? In that
>> case you can grep the IP address (which might change when you change
>> workplaces) and timestamps from the log files (or create a script that
>> logs the IP address changes to an ORG file) and then somehow (coughcough)
>> integrate that into your report. 
>
> That's actually an interesting (and not standard) idea.  Even moreso
> because I'm writing a RescueTime-like time-tracking tool for Emacs,
> working (unlike Org's clocking) without manual intervention - recording
> the state of computer (i.e., current idle time, active X window, active
> Emacs buffer name and mode) at regular (or not) intervals and making
> reports.  I did not include any network-related info, but this would be
> easy to add.  Thanks, I'll definitely think about it!

Along similar lines, how about running a process on a computer near
where you dwell at work which watches for your mobile phone's bluetooth
ID.  Recording when your phone enters/exits its range will sample the
time you are physically present.  If you roam around at work you will
need to remember to visit the BT range at the start and at the end of
your day in order to get a full measure.  And, you'll need to process
the samples to pull out the earliest/latest times to calculate the time
present.  This post-processing can emit Org text or whatever format you
want.

Looking at what bluetooth stuff is available on Ubuntu, "bluemon" seems
perfect for the heavy lifting.  Your OS may vary.


There are also Android apps that do this kind of locating directly using
GPS/WiFi location and uploading the results to google drive or similar.
However, I've never managed to find one which I can make work reliably.

-Brett.

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Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Michael Welle]

Hello,

Brett Viren <bv@bnl.gov> writes:
[...]
> Along similar lines, how about running a process on a computer near
> where you dwell at work which watches for your mobile phone's bluetooth
> ID.  Recording when your phone enters/exits its range will sample the
> time you are physically present.
doesn't do that the employer already?

*duckandhide*
hmw

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-29, at 16:51, Brett Viren <bv@bnl.gov> wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> On 2016-04-29, at 11:21, Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>>> I assume that you use a laptop or some other portable device? In that
>>> case you can grep the IP address (which might change when you change
>>> workplaces) and timestamps from the log files (or create a script that
>>> logs the IP address changes to an ORG file) and then somehow (coughcough)
>>> integrate that into your report. 
>>
>> That's actually an interesting (and not standard) idea.  Even moreso
>> because I'm writing a RescueTime-like time-tracking tool for Emacs,
>> working (unlike Org's clocking) without manual intervention - recording
>> the state of computer (i.e., current idle time, active X window, active
>> Emacs buffer name and mode) at regular (or not) intervals and making
>> reports.  I did not include any network-related info, but this would be
>> easy to add.  Thanks, I'll definitely think about it!
>
> Along similar lines, how about running a process on a computer near
> where you dwell at work which watches for your mobile phone's bluetooth
> ID.  Recording when your phone enters/exits its range will sample the
> time you are physically present.  If you roam around at work you will
> need to remember to visit the BT range at the start and at the end of
> your day in order to get a full measure.  And, you'll need to process
> the samples to pull out the earliest/latest times to calculate the time
> present.  This post-processing can emit Org text or whatever format you
> want.
>
> Looking at what bluetooth stuff is available on Ubuntu, "bluemon" seems
> perfect for the heavy lifting.  Your OS may vary.
>
>
> There are also Android apps that do this kind of locating directly using
> GPS/WiFi location and uploading the results to google drive or similar.
> However, I've never managed to find one which I can make work reliably.

Thanks, this is also interesting, though of no use for me personally;
I turn bluetooth on very seldom on my phone (maybe every few months for
a few minutes, when I want to send some pictures to my wife's phone or
something).  Similarly for the GPS; I use it much more often, but still
not all the time.

> -Brett.

Thanks and best regards,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Michael Welle]

Hello,

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> On 2016-04-29, at 11:21, Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>>
>>> Hi list,
>>>
>>> I'm seeking ideas/workflows for a situation where I work partly in
>>> office and partly remotely.  I'd like to be able to generate a report
>>> with information about both my work time and "office time".  I know that
>>> you can't have two things clocked at the same time, so simply clocking
>>> "office time" and (during this office time) clocking e.g. individual
>>> tasks won't work.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>> I assume that you use a laptop or some other portable device? In that
>> case you can grep the IP address (which might change when you change
>> workplaces) and timestamps from the log files (or create a script that
>> logs the IP address changes to an ORG file) and then somehow (coughcough)
>> integrate that into your report. 
>
> That's actually an interesting (and not standard) idea.  Even moreso
> because I'm writing a RescueTime-like time-tracking tool for Emacs,
> working (unlike Org's clocking) without manual intervention - recording
> the state of computer (i.e., current idle time, active X window, active
> Emacs buffer name and mode) at regular (or not) intervals and making
> reports.  I did not include any network-related info, but this would be
> easy to add.  Thanks, I'll definitely think about it!
interesting.

I used the IP address approach for some time to track the time I spent
at customers sites. It worked quite well. The only trouble was if we
went to the cafeteria and talked for an hour before I had a chance to
start my laptop :).

Regards
hmw

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-29, at 20:10, Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> On 2016-04-29, at 11:21, Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi list,
>>>>
>>>> I'm seeking ideas/workflows for a situation where I work partly in
>>>> office and partly remotely.  I'd like to be able to generate a report
>>>> with information about both my work time and "office time".  I know that
>>>> you can't have two things clocked at the same time, so simply clocking
>>>> "office time" and (during this office time) clocking e.g. individual
>>>> tasks won't work.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>> I assume that you use a laptop or some other portable device? In that
>>> case you can grep the IP address (which might change when you change
>>> workplaces) and timestamps from the log files (or create a script that
>>> logs the IP address changes to an ORG file) and then somehow (coughcough)
>>> integrate that into your report. 
>>
>> That's actually an interesting (and not standard) idea.  Even moreso
>> because I'm writing a RescueTime-like time-tracking tool for Emacs,
>> working (unlike Org's clocking) without manual intervention - recording
>> the state of computer (i.e., current idle time, active X window, active
>> Emacs buffer name and mode) at regular (or not) intervals and making
>> reports.  I did not include any network-related info, but this would be
>> easy to add.  Thanks, I'll definitely think about it!
> interesting.
>
> I used the IP address approach for some time to track the time I spent
> at customers sites. It worked quite well. The only trouble was if we
> went to the cafeteria and talked for an hour before I had a chance to
> start my laptop :).

Now that I think of it, I guess it might be better/easier to check the
network SSID.  Thanks for the idea!

> Regards
> hmw

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-30, at 06:34, Michael Welle <mwe012008@gmx.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
> [...]
>> Now that I think of it, I guess it might be better/easier to check the
>> network SSID.  Thanks for the idea!
> that would work as well. You can even probe the SSID without actually
> connecting to the network.

Interesting, how to do that?

> Regards
> hmw

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Simon Thum]

Hi,

you could try differentiating by headline tags. By virtue of FILETAGS, 
my work-related things are usually :work:@work: but could be 
:work:@home: or :work:@customer: as well. But tags are tied to the 
headline you're clocking in, i.e. you may need extra headlines.

Also, I did not try to rip them apart in clock reports, but if that's 
flexible enough for you I'm sure there is a way.

Cheers,

Simon

On 04/29/2016 09:29 AM, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I'm seeking ideas/workflows for a situation where I work partly in
> office and partly remotely.  I'd like to be able to generate a report
> with information about both my work time and "office time".  I know that
> you can't have two things clocked at the same time, so simply clocking
> "office time" and (during this office time) clocking e.g. individual
> tasks won't work.
>
> Any ideas?
>

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Eric S Fraga]

Hi Marcin,

I am not sure if this will help but...

I keep clocking information completely separate from the individual
tasks.  This may go against the grain for typical org usage but it works
for me.

I have a clocking hierarchy defined which includes headlines for
each project etc. and clock these in and out as required.  The actual
task contents for each task will appear in separate files that have no
clocking information. This then frees me to up to have whatever clocking
structure I want.  I do this because the reporting information that I
need to provide does not actually align with the real tasks in my case
so my separate clocking hierarchy provides a different "view" into my
tasks.

In your case, you could have something like this for the "tasks" you
will clock:

#+begin_src org
  ,* office
  ,** task a
  ,** task b
  ,** task d
  ,* out of office
  ,** task a
  ,** task c
#+end_src

where, in this case, tasks b and d are only done in the office, task c
only outside/remotely and task a can take place in either place.  It
means duplicating the headlines that could appear in either site but the
actual task detail etc. is somewhere else and not duplicated.

You could put links in each headline to the actual task contents for
easy navigation, of course.

HTH,
eric

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-739-g789412

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-29, at 11:16, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hi Marcin,
>
> I am not sure if this will help but...
>
> [...]

Thanks, Eric!

I like the approach of not having too deep hierarchy.  Also, the idea of
having two parallel trees (for "remote" and "office" work) is ok.

However, this does not help with my main issue: tracking /time in
office/.  Not /time in office working/, mind you.

I'd like to have a report like this (I mean information, not
formatting):

* Office time: 2:00
** Task 1/Project A: 0:30
** Task 2/Project B: 0:45

* Home time:
** Task 1/Project A: 1:15
** Task 2/Project B: 0:30

So not only time spent on actual work on various tasks/projects, but
also time /spent physically in the office/.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Eric S Fraga]

On Friday, 29 Apr 2016 at 09:25, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> However, this does not help with my main issue: tracking /time in
> office/.  Not /time in office working/, mind you.
>
> I'd like to have a report like this (I mean information, not
> formatting):
>
> * Office time: 2:00
> ** Task 1/Project A: 0:30
> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:45
>
> * Home time:
> ** Task 1/Project A: 1:15
> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:30
>
> So not only time spent on actual work on various tasks/projects, but
> also time /spent physically in the office/.

I would suggest that the office time simply be the sum of the times of
all headlines within that sub-tree?  If you need something to mop up
times which are not allocated to a specific task within the office
hierarchy, create a sub-headline called "misc" or some such?

Or am I missing something more fundamental?

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 25.0.92.1, Org release_8.3.4-739-g789412

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Loris Bennett]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Friday, 29 Apr 2016 at 09:25, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> However, this does not help with my main issue: tracking /time in
>> office/.  Not /time in office working/, mind you.
>>
>> I'd like to have a report like this (I mean information, not
>> formatting):
>>
>> * Office time: 2:00
>> ** Task 1/Project A: 0:30
>> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:45
>>
>> * Home time:
>> ** Task 1/Project A: 1:15
>> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:30
>>
>> So not only time spent on actual work on various tasks/projects, but
>> also time /spent physically in the office/.
>
> I would suggest that the office time simply be the sum of the times of
> all headlines within that sub-tree?  If you need something to mop up
> times which are not allocated to a specific task within the office
> hierarchy, create a sub-headline called "misc" or some such?
>
> Or am I missing something more fundamental?

For me the problem would be just checking in and out of "misc".  If I
forget once, then my /time in the office/ would be incorrect.

Personally, I need to keep track of /time in the office/ for my
employer.  Tracking time actually spent doing tasks planned with Org
would be nice for me personally, but as I can't currently have two
clocks running, I don't do this.

Cheers,

Loris

-- 
Dr. Loris Bennett (Mr.)
ZEDAT, Freie Universität Berlin         Email loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Peter Neilson]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:08:38 -0400, Loris Bennett  
<loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> wrote:

> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> On Friday, 29 Apr 2016 at 09:25, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>> However, this does not help with my main issue: tracking /time in
>>> office/.  Not /time in office working/, mind you.
>>>
>>> I'd like to have a report like this (I mean information, not
>>> formatting):
>>>
>>> * Office time: 2:00
>>> ** Task 1/Project A: 0:30
>>> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:45
>>>
>>> * Home time:
>>> ** Task 1/Project A: 1:15
>>> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:30
>>>
>>> So not only time spent on actual work on various tasks/projects, but
>>> also time /spent physically in the office/.
>>
>> I would suggest that the office time simply be the sum of the times of
>> all headlines within that sub-tree?  If you need something to mop up
>> times which are not allocated to a specific task within the office
>> hierarchy, create a sub-headline called "misc" or some such?
>>
>> Or am I missing something more fundamental?
>
> For me the problem would be just checking in and out of "misc".  If I
> forget once, then my /time in the office/ would be incorrect.
>
> Personally, I need to keep track of /time in the office/ for my
> employer.  Tracking time actually spent doing tasks planned with Org
> would be nice for me personally, but as I can't currently have two
> clocks running, I don't do this.

Have not tested this, but what about running two separate sessions of  
emacs? It would certainly work if using two separate machines or two  
separate logins on one machine. Should be able to ssh or ctrl-alt-F1 to a  
different identity. Merge the two reports into one later with easy custom  
code.

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-29, at 14:31, Peter Neilson <neilson@windstream.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:08:38 -0400, Loris Bennett  
> <loris.bennett@fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
>> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>>
>>> On Friday, 29 Apr 2016 at 09:25, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>>> However, this does not help with my main issue: tracking /time in
>>>> office/.  Not /time in office working/, mind you.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to have a report like this (I mean information, not
>>>> formatting):
>>>>
>>>> * Office time: 2:00
>>>> ** Task 1/Project A: 0:30
>>>> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:45
>>>>
>>>> * Home time:
>>>> ** Task 1/Project A: 1:15
>>>> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:30
>>>>
>>>> So not only time spent on actual work on various tasks/projects, but
>>>> also time /spent physically in the office/.
>>>
>>> I would suggest that the office time simply be the sum of the times of
>>> all headlines within that sub-tree?  If you need something to mop up
>>> times which are not allocated to a specific task within the office
>>> hierarchy, create a sub-headline called "misc" or some such?
>>>
>>> Or am I missing something more fundamental?
>>
>> For me the problem would be just checking in and out of "misc".  If I
>> forget once, then my /time in the office/ would be incorrect.
>>
>> Personally, I need to keep track of /time in the office/ for my
>> employer.  Tracking time actually spent doing tasks planned with Org
>> would be nice for me personally, but as I can't currently have two
>> clocks running, I don't do this.
>
> Have not tested this, but what about running two separate sessions of  
> emacs? It would certainly work if using two separate machines or two  
> separate logins on one machine. Should be able to ssh or ctrl-alt-F1 to a  
> different identity. Merge the two reports into one later with easy custom  
> code.

Thanks for the input, but I consider this to be a Very Bad Idea™.
I would be constantly annoyed by not shared histories, open buffers etc.
YMMV, of course.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-29, at 13:05, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

> On Friday, 29 Apr 2016 at 09:25, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> However, this does not help with my main issue: tracking /time in
>> office/.  Not /time in office working/, mind you.
>>
>> I'd like to have a report like this (I mean information, not
>> formatting):
>>
>> * Office time: 2:00
>> ** Task 1/Project A: 0:30
>> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:45
>>
>> * Home time:
>> ** Task 1/Project A: 1:15
>> ** Task 2/Project B: 0:30
>>
>> So not only time spent on actual work on various tasks/projects, but
>> also time /spent physically in the office/.
>
> I would suggest that the office time simply be the sum of the times of
> all headlines within that sub-tree?  If you need something to mop up
> times which are not allocated to a specific task within the office
> hierarchy, create a sub-headline called "misc" or some such?
>
> Or am I missing something more fundamental?

No, you're not - this is one possible solution.  I'm curious about other
ones (with this one, instead of clocking out of a task, I'd have to
clock in "misc" - I don't have a habit like that, why not have Emacs
handle that for me?  Now that I wrote it, I guess I could inject
something in one of the hooks...)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Stefan Nobis]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> No, you're not - this is one possible solution.  I'm curious about other
> ones.

If tracking the time you're at a specific location is your main
objective (and if you own a Smartphone), I would say: Geofencing. Let
your Smartphone track when you enter/leave the specific location. With
todays tools and apps it should be (easily?) possible to capture the
events/times and for example automatically send an E-Mail. This mail
may go to a special accounting address and maybe even automatically
processed - from this information you may create Org entries to be
appended to a special Org file.

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.

Re: Clocking work time vs. office time

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-04-29, at 17:13, Stefan Nobis <stefan-ml@snobis.de> wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:
>
>> No, you're not - this is one possible solution.  I'm curious about other
>> ones.
>
> If tracking the time you're at a specific location is your main
> objective (and if you own a Smartphone), I would say: Geofencing. Let
> your Smartphone track when you enter/leave the specific location. With
> todays tools and apps it should be (easily?) possible to capture the
> events/times and for example automatically send an E-Mail. This mail
> may go to a special accounting address and maybe even automatically
> processed - from this information you may create Org entries to be
> appended to a special Org file.

Thanks, Stefan,

and while this is (theoretically) a nice idea, it won't work for me very
well.  Firstly, I'd have to install yet another app on my smartphone,
and more importantly, I'd have to have wifi/gps/whatever turned on all
the time (and I don't want to).

Anyway, thanks for your input -- this /is/ a good idea, just one that
won't work with /me/.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University