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From: Taylan Kammer <taylan.kammer@gmail.com>
To: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@gmail.com>,
	Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org>
Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [minor patch] Amend CoC
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 23:45:04 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4920fddb-7a62-f31e-2ced-c59125177a4c@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <bfa08225ae4effed919d2269508ca94e2038f483.camel@gmail.com>

On 20.02.2022 22:02, Liliana Marie Prikler wrote:
> 
> "Sex is distinct from gender" is a common transphobic talking point. 
> 

Like I said I don't actually want to argue, but I really feel the need
to point out that what you seem to consider a transphobic talking point
is seen as a fundamental principle of feminism by many others, and that
long predates the contemporary transgender movement.

  "One is not born, but rather becomes, woman. No biological, psychic,
  or economic destiny defines the figure that the human female takes on
  in society; it is civilization as a whole that elaborates this
  intermediary product between the male and the eunuch that is called
  feminine."
    -- Simone de Beauvoir, The Second Sex (1949), 2010 translation

This is one of the most iconic passages from the book (especially the
first sentence on its own), and the book is considered to be pretty
much one of the most important works in feminist history.

Given that, I find it somewhat baffling that distinguishing between sex
and gender is now apparently considered transphobic.  (This isn't the
first time I'm hearing that claim, but I was under the impression that
it's a very fringe position.)

Actually, I could swear that only about 5 years ago, "sex and gender are
*not* the same" was a very common thing transgender activists would say.
I might actually have learned that principle from trans activists before
reading up on feminist literature.

Anyhow, all that is only tangential to the topic at hand.  In context
of this topic, I want to mainly highlight one thing, which is that
regardless of what one thinks about gender as a social construct,
gender identity and expression, transgender identities, and so on,
there is undeniably a number of ways in which people born with female
anatomy have been and continue to be mistreated throughout history
and around the planet.  To acknowledge that has very little to do with
transgender identities, and at no point did I or will I argue that the
CoC should for instance exclude "gender identity" from the list.

Is it possible that we would meet in the middle on this topic and
acknowledge both perspectives?

-- 
Taylan


  reply	other threads:[~2022-02-20 22:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-02-20 18:05 [minor patch] Amend CoC Liliana Marie Prikler
2022-02-20 18:45 ` Maxime Devos
2022-02-20 19:30   ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2022-02-20 20:56   ` Jonathan McHugh
2022-02-20 21:12     ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2022-02-20 21:47     ` Jonathan McHugh
2022-02-20 19:43 ` Taylan Kammer
2022-02-20 21:37   ` Thiago Jung Bauermann
2022-02-20 22:01     ` Taylan Kammer
2022-02-21 16:18       ` Christine Lemmer-Webber
2022-02-21 16:01   ` Christine Lemmer-Webber
2022-02-22 17:16     ` Taylan Kammer
2022-02-23  9:48       ` Andy Wingo
2022-02-23 10:10         ` Oliver Propst
2022-02-20 19:47 ` Mark H Weaver
2022-02-20 21:02   ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2022-02-20 22:45     ` Taylan Kammer [this message]
2022-02-21  8:24       ` Tissevert
2022-02-21 21:03       ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2022-02-21 21:11         ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-02-23 11:38 Blake Shaw
2022-02-20 21:37 Blake Shaw
2022-02-20 13:02 Taylan Kammer
2022-02-20 13:10 ` Julien Lepiller
2022-02-20 13:16   ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2022-02-20 16:29     ` Taylan Kammer
2022-02-20 17:44       ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2022-02-20 16:19   ` Taylan Kammer

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