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[109.90.125.150]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h2sm4567150ejo.73.2022.02.20.14.45.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Feb 2022 14:45:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4920fddb-7a62-f31e-2ced-c59125177a4c@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 23:45:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1 Subject: Re: [minor patch] Amend CoC Content-Language: en-US To: Liliana Marie Prikler , Mark H Weaver References: <9cfec52325723f1fa99e5f4a99b982b7ab0fcd33.camel@gmail.com> <87h78t5ng7.fsf@netris.org> From: Taylan Kammer In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::532 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::532; envelope-from=taylan.kammer@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x532.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.659, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1645397124; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=qePVivHGLcZfL5TiOKLpQoum26vfkgHS6ovA6m+OlZQ=; b=pnysLlc6O2tzVdz2YQgDd7zAODxX0xhT8d+HZGBAq9uBeOm6MH3PI6SOUyr6VnqcBlof2T sXv9DTQBWW1owm4G0h+YLzpWjrSPxgon1Mo1wp5eUzmVLKODopqBWdFB11+6rIgEs0/oUb rXSa1UzKZWXKmRwN1/9/hmbFvRH3Smow5KdD5wgQVu3L/I8oI8lLwekqPn5c5W6lw5VmNn YOFYNTlP+4OAkLfuZ7Li5x57XX3Jwy99uWzn9MlJ3dYjit4D3mRNzr6WwvAObMgaQS1MSO 6PmSpqPxuB4f4UEUUlQ3+R1+36OFN4BW8kGzYkrtB4MHNQGREKVONYyM213+Cw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1645397124; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=RklRQwbe2Vd++6jnMuxRHm/cMqa1IQfLJwFo+EgGkIKBjoo5ytoDJpI88RGuBOuR3gLI5z sz5GIqeqC/T0WHBic8agJ6E+A1NOJ9XDviMxjYP3VoC9Xiv+Iu8r1C8wYtmR+heSkKmxXK BRIuwWS/Sd4lCSSQfj/DL8Wa74QlNU4R9mxxf5Z20QyKWe/Ezjr6lKrDq8JHf08VB2SbQn ISD+vFB980FME7VlK1P5wwkeDSoTkSIsVUX7GvxiXgUjhDsazPYMvaJ/F+Oxp+AxkGbi4s TMgn3MIjMOhHdoDLcRmou96WUAZLL1hseYRUuPNpF9Vicjk+9LbXovZ9QkcPQg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=dxtgr8S1; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.33 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=dxtgr8S1; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E518D41C51 X-Spam-Score: -4.33 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: I2FPsTk65NoG On 20.02.2022 22:02, Liliana Marie Prikler wrote: > > "Sex is distinct from gender" is a common transphobic talking point. > Like I said I don't actually want to argue, but I really feel the need to point out that what you seem to consider a transphobic talking point is seen as a fundamental principle of feminism by many others, and that long predates the contemporary transgender movement. "One is not born, but rather becomes, woman. No biological, psychic, or economic destiny defines the figure that the human female takes on in society; it is civilization as a whole that elaborates this intermediary product between the male and the eunuch that is called feminine." -- Simone de Beauvoir, The Second Sex (1949), 2010 translation This is one of the most iconic passages from the book (especially the first sentence on its own), and the book is considered to be pretty much one of the most important works in feminist history. Given that, I find it somewhat baffling that distinguishing between sex and gender is now apparently considered transphobic. (This isn't the first time I'm hearing that claim, but I was under the impression that it's a very fringe position.) Actually, I could swear that only about 5 years ago, "sex and gender are *not* the same" was a very common thing transgender activists would say. I might actually have learned that principle from trans activists before reading up on feminist literature. Anyhow, all that is only tangential to the topic at hand. In context of this topic, I want to mainly highlight one thing, which is that regardless of what one thinks about gender as a social construct, gender identity and expression, transgender identities, and so on, there is undeniably a number of ways in which people born with female anatomy have been and continue to be mistreated throughout history and around the planet. To acknowledge that has very little to do with transgender identities, and at no point did I or will I argue that the CoC should for instance exclude "gender identity" from the list. Is it possible that we would meet in the middle on this topic and acknowledge both perspectives? -- Taylan