From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>
To: Mark H Weaver <mhw@netris.org>
Cc: 22629@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#22629: Channels not needed for a stable branch (was: Channels!)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 20:26:32 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87zhx59gh3.fsf@elephly.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87lg8pccys.fsf_-_@netris.org>
Hi Mark,
> I'd like to say again that I have grave concerns that this could be the
> death-knell for long-term innovation in Guix. It's likely that whenever
> a change is proposed that will break these third-party channels, there
> will be resistance, and efforts to preserve backward compatibility.
GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH already had that same problem (and did not provide a
solution for it). With channels we can at least add more information
about a collection of modules, e.g. what version of Guix it is known to
work with. So channels really flesh out the feature provided by
GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH, elevating it from a simple environment variable to
one that can take additional context into account.
I think that’s a worthwhile step to take.
I agree with your sentiment that a mechanism based on a simple
environment variable does not instill confidence, whereas a special
mechanism like channels could signal to users that it’s a feature that
provides some guarantees. But I disagree with your assertion that this
would be “a death-knell to innovation”. That seems like an exaggeration
to me.
> My point is that I want to keep our APIs internal and unfrozen for the
> same reason that Linux, the kernel project, does. Linux refuses to
> support out-of-tree drivers and modules, and thereby retains its freedom
> to change their internal APIs. Often they change how things work
> internally and this entails doing massive find-replace on every driver
> in the tree. This has been a crucially important factor in their
> long-term success.
[…]
> We should persue a similar model. The crucial thing is to always keep
> the package modules together with the rest of Guix.
I agree. That is and remains our recommendation. I still want most
packages to end up in Guix proper. There are collections of packages
for which this does not make sense, though, and I think that it is
better to have a more formal mechanism that can also be used to describe
the limits of compatibility than just a simple environment variable.
I also agree with you that we don’t need channels for providing a stable
branch. The biggest obstacle to providing a stable branch is not
technical, but it requires people maintaining it.
--
Ricardo
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-08-29 18:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-02-11 10:35 bug#22629: Towards a new 'guix pull' Ludovic Courtès
2017-02-22 7:57 ` Pjotr Prins
2017-02-24 18:21 ` Leo Famulari
2018-04-08 16:48 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-04-08 17:45 ` Nils Gillmann
2018-05-31 14:43 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 0/4] 'guix pull' produces a self-contained Guix Ludovic Courtès
2018-05-31 14:43 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 1/4] self: Produce a complete package with the 'guix' command Ludovic Courtès
2018-05-31 14:43 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 2/4] pull: Install the new Guix in a profile Ludovic Courtès
2018-05-31 14:43 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 3/4] self: Compute and use locale data Ludovic Courtès
2018-05-31 14:43 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 4/4] self: Build the Info manual Ludovic Courtès
2018-05-31 14:53 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 0/4] 'guix pull' produces a self-contained Guix Thompson, David
2018-06-01 12:13 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-06-03 13:08 ` Pjotr Prins
2018-06-03 20:29 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-06-04 19:12 ` Pjotr Prins
2018-05-31 18:00 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-06-04 11:20 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-06-05 11:45 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-06-06 13:24 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-06-06 15:54 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-06-06 20:49 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-05-31 18:58 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2018-06-01 12:11 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-06-05 16:47 ` Fis Trivial
2018-06-06 13:27 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-06-06 20:58 ` Fis Trivial
2018-06-09 10:07 ` Ludovic Courtès
2017-09-15 20:39 ` bug#28471: guix pull doesn't update the user manual Maxim Cournoyer
[not found] ` <handler.28471.D22629.152853885816765.notifdone@debbugs.gnu.org>
2018-06-13 21:46 ` bug#22629: bug#28471: closed (Re: bug#22629: [PATCH 0/4] 'guix pull' produces a self-contained Guix) Ludovic Courtès
2018-07-19 4:45 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 0/4] 'guix pull' produces a self-contained Guix Chris Marusich
2018-07-19 12:15 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-28 15:16 ` bug#22629: Channels! Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-28 15:17 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 1/3] discovery: Add 'scheme-modules*' Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-28 15:17 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 2/3] Add (guix describe) and use it to initialize '%package-search-path' Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-28 15:17 ` bug#22629: [PATCH 3/3] DRAFT Add (guix channels) and use it in (guix scripts pull) Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-28 17:24 ` bug#22629: Channels! Pjotr Prins
2018-08-28 19:52 ` Mark H Weaver
2018-08-28 21:52 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-29 4:09 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-08-29 14:25 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-29 15:30 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-08-29 20:50 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-29 9:29 ` Alex Sassmannshausen
2018-08-29 17:14 ` bug#22629: Channels not needed for a stable branch (was: Channels!) Mark H Weaver
2018-08-29 18:26 ` Ricardo Wurmus [this message]
2018-08-30 5:57 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-08-30 6:42 ` bug#22629: Channels not needed for a stable branch Mark H Weaver
2018-08-30 10:10 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-08-30 12:18 ` bug#22629: “Stable” branch Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-30 14:10 ` Alex Sassmannshausen
2018-08-30 22:02 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-31 9:39 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-08-31 9:58 ` bug#26608: " Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-31 10:33 ` bug#32022: " Konrad Hinsen
2018-08-31 13:01 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-31 11:24 ` bug#26608: " Jan Nieuwenhuizen
2018-08-31 11:45 ` bug#32022: " Ricardo Wurmus
2018-09-03 14:10 ` Alex Sassmannshausen
2018-09-03 19:52 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-09-04 8:02 ` bug#26608: " Alex Sassmannshausen
2018-09-04 12:22 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-09-03 20:27 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-08-20 11:09 ` bug#26608: " zimoun
2018-08-30 14:46 ` Konrad Hinsen
2018-08-29 21:02 ` bug#22629: Channels not needed for a stable branch Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-30 21:29 ` bug#22629: Channels! Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-30 21:31 ` bug#22629: [PATCH v2 1/3] discovery: Add 'scheme-modules*' Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-30 21:31 ` bug#22629: [PATCH v2 2/3] Add (guix describe) and use it to initialize '%package-search-path' Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-31 12:21 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2018-08-31 13:56 ` Ludovic Courtès
2018-08-31 14:32 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2018-08-30 21:31 ` bug#22629: [PATCH v2 3/3] Add (guix channels) and use it in (guix scripts pull) Ludovic Courtès
2018-09-02 15:11 ` bug#22629: Channels! Ludovic Courtès
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