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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net>
To: zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>
Cc: GNU Guix maintainers <guix-maintainers@gnu.org>, 38529@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#38529: Make --ad-hoc the default for guix environment proposed deprecation mechanism
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 22:31:40 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87tv5upttv.fsf@elephly.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3okZ2XTAbPp0m7TQqCEi_oz223HyBd0BZefRO4Q90xmni2mw@mail.gmail.com>


zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:

> Then you ask one question: "Should Guix be volatile software?" with
> the subtitle "Software developers should avoid traumatic changes".
> Nothing more.
> Well, I answer you by trying to fill the gap. Note that "volatile
> software" is the same argument than the Ludo's concern and the
> Konrad's example. So, nothing new on the table; except you are
> starting to throw "feelings" with the "traumatic change" words.

I’m just chiming in here to say that feelings of frustration are very
valid reasons to make or object to a change.  Guix is or can be a very
important piece of software — if it remains reliable in the toolbox of
those using it.

It is difficult striking the right balance between exciting new features
that make things possible that were previously unattainable and
dependability through stable interfaces.

The Guix command line is by far the most commonly used interface.  We
can’t just claim that the Scheme API is stable (which it actually isn’t)
and change the user-facing CLI as we please.

Personally, I think that it is fine to introduce breaking changes, but
that for changes that are likely to have a high potential for annoyance
and frustration there ought to be a documented way to work around them.
Breaking changes must be communicated through version number bumps and
accompanying announcements.

While I don’t see how we can make it happen, I do find the idea of a
stable API whose version can be selected with an environment variable
intriguing and worth thinking about.  If our Scheme API is as flexible
as we claim it shouldn’t be too hard to interpose a configuration layer
between the core facilities and the “porcelain”.

I wonder what the other maintainers think about this.

--
Ricardo

  reply	other threads:[~2019-12-20 21:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 65+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-12-08 15:42 bug#38529: Make --pure the default for `guix environment'? Pierre Neidhardt
2019-12-08 21:03 ` zimoun
2019-12-09 18:46   ` Thompson, David
2019-12-09 20:17     ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-10 17:16     ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-30 17:27       ` raingloom
2020-11-03 17:38       ` Christopher Lemmer Webber
2020-11-03 18:35         ` zimoun
2020-11-06  9:03         ` Ludovic Courtès
2020-11-04  9:43       ` Taylan Kammer
2020-11-04 16:05         ` Christopher Lemmer Webber
2019-12-12 11:23   ` bug#38529: Make --ad-hoc the default for guix environment proposed deprecation mechanism Gábor Boskovits
     [not found]   ` <CAE4v=phY+7CTKMf8Y3a9p4okfqtMGOWu9kd2Nu6oCJW8OsK3Lw@mail.gmail.com>
2019-12-12 16:47     ` zimoun
     [not found]     ` <CAJ3okZ3+-yAfRpYDHz-jYONguOPWjff0iWZ_7NPEz6x5mbOO1w@mail.gmail.com>
2019-12-12 20:54       ` Gábor Boskovits
     [not found]       ` <CAE4v=piMnBhHWpbB60qMRnnDNwqkuddfNv7cEihr9+5-52k2OA@mail.gmail.com>
2019-12-13 12:02         ` zimoun
2019-12-13 16:27           ` Gábor Boskovits
2019-12-13 16:32             ` zimoun
2019-12-13 16:41               ` Gábor Boskovits
2019-12-16 22:09             ` Ludovic Courtès
     [not found]             ` <87k16vdise.fsf@gnu.org>
2019-12-17  6:49               ` Konrad Hinsen
     [not found]               ` <e992ac46-37b9-ba12-83cc-6694427acd31@fastmail.net>
2019-12-17  9:14                 ` Gábor Boskovits
     [not found]                 ` <CAE4v=pjc5pWiaaB17tJnpO=O0=M5xrEWhyvWMLRaiLy5V19Y5Q@mail.gmail.com>
2019-12-17 13:33                   ` Kyle Meyer
     [not found]                   ` <87pngncc0n.fsf@kyleam.com>
2019-12-17 14:22                     ` Brett Gilio
2019-12-17 22:30                   ` Bengt Richter
     [not found]                   ` <20191217223048.GA3741@PhantoNv4ArchGx.localdomain>
2019-12-17 23:21                     ` Bengt Richter
2019-12-17 17:07                 ` zimoun
     [not found]                 ` <CAJ3okZ0Fw=02cDwdn5GuiDCyUNOUY=YaGyrFyHE5qWsOQTLASQ@mail.gmail.com>
2019-12-18  9:43                   ` Konrad Hinsen
     [not found]                   ` <m1pngmrmst.fsf@khs-macbook.home>
2019-12-18 13:09                     ` zimoun
2019-12-18 20:55                     ` Arne Babenhauserheide
2019-12-19 11:30                       ` zimoun
2019-12-19 21:39                         ` Arne Babenhauserheide
2019-12-19 22:40                           ` zimoun
2019-12-20  1:37                             ` Arne Babenhauserheide
2019-12-20 11:40                               ` zimoun
2019-12-20 21:31                                 ` Ricardo Wurmus [this message]
2019-12-21  8:40                                   ` Gábor Boskovits
2019-12-21 16:51                                   ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-30  9:44                                     ` EuAndreh via Bug reports for GNU Guix
2019-12-30 10:34                                       ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-30 12:03                                         ` zimoun
2019-12-30 15:06                                           ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-30 17:55                                             ` zimoun
2019-12-30 21:10                                               ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-12-30 21:32                                                 ` zimoun
2019-12-31 18:09                                                 ` Ludovic Courtès
2019-12-31 19:09                                                   ` Ricardo Wurmus
2020-01-01 19:23                                                     ` zimoun
2019-12-20 23:02                                 ` Arne Babenhauserheide
2019-12-21  0:04                                   ` zimoun
     [not found]                     ` <CAJ3okZ3zSS0Rbnu5eLhpYHPvSY1emaj=-estQcjRwiJ3=4RMMA@mail.gmail.com>
2019-12-20 11:24                       ` Konrad Hinsen
     [not found]                       ` <m1fthfz1db.fsf@ordinateur-de-catherine--konrad.home>
2019-12-20 12:03                         ` zimoun
2019-12-20 21:08                           ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-12-23  9:28                             ` Danny Milosavljevic
2020-01-02  9:49                             ` Andy Wingo
2019-12-20 21:12                     ` Ricardo Wurmus
     [not found]                     ` <87v9qapuq6.fsf@elephly.net>
2019-12-21 15:18                       ` Konrad Hinsen
2019-12-19 16:31                 ` bug#38529: Deprecating ‘guix environment’? Ludovic Courtès
     [not found]                 ` <87k16snuoz.fsf_-_@gnu.org>
2019-12-19 22:48                   ` zimoun
2019-12-20 11:17                   ` Konrad Hinsen
     [not found]                   ` <m1immbz1ny.fsf@ordinateur-de-catherine--konrad.home>
2019-12-20 13:21                     ` zimoun
2019-12-08 22:43 ` bug#38529: Make --pure the default for `guix environment'? Leo Famulari
2019-12-09  5:23 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2022-08-19 14:28   ` Maxim Cournoyer
2019-12-09 17:37 ` Jesse Gibbons
2019-12-12 19:33   ` zimoun

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