From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org>
To: Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2023 03:27:12 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1qVRyq-0000V0-Ef@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87y1ifi9fv.fsf@dataswamp.org> (message from Emanuel Berg on Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:21:56 +0200)
Step one would be to identify why SBCL is so much faster.
The short reason why SBCL is faster is that SBCL uses lots of type
checking and interference, which allows it to figure out optimizations
better. And then using assembly to implement such optimizations. CL
code compiled without DECLARE/DECLAIM is generally slow, but can be
made fast if you are very careful, and lucky that the things you need
are implemented as VOPs -- which are entierly unportable.
It also has the luxury of using a language that is set more or less in
stone, that doesn't change constantly. Which means the developers can
spend quite a bit more time on optimizing what they have.
If that fails maybe one would consider ECL or some other
faster, yet portable solution ...
"Porting" Emacs to CL is not just slap ECL or some CL implementation
on top. Adding type checking of the sort that SBCL does, would be
possible but ALOT of work. It would most definitly require a entierly
new VM, and with that comes dragons.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-08-14 7:27 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 353+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-08-09 9:46 Shrinking the C core Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 10:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-09 11:03 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 11:29 ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-09 12:34 ` Po Lu
2023-08-09 15:51 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 23:56 ` Po Lu
2023-08-10 1:19 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10 1:47 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-10 1:58 ` Eric Frederickson
2023-08-10 2:07 ` Sam James
2023-08-10 2:44 ` Po Lu
2023-08-10 6:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 21:21 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10 21:19 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-10 21:56 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 5:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11 8:45 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 11:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11 12:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 13:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 2:28 ` Po Lu
2023-08-10 4:15 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-10 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 21:54 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 10:27 ` Bignum performance (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 12:10 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 12:32 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 12:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 14:07 ` [PATCH] " Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 18:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-11 19:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 19:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 8:24 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 16:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 9:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13 9:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 10:21 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 2:20 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 2:42 ` [PATCH] Re: Bignum performance Po Lu
2023-08-14 4:16 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 7:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 7:50 ` Po Lu
2023-08-14 9:28 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-15 14:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 7:20 ` [PATCH] Re: Bignum performance (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 22:46 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 8:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 16:22 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 9:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 14:14 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-08-11 18:09 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-10 23:49 ` Shrinking the C core Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-11 0:03 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-11 8:24 ` Immanuel Litzroth
2023-08-11 7:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-11 7:19 ` tomas
2023-08-11 10:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-10 11:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-08-10 21:26 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-12 2:46 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-12 3:22 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 8:33 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 15:58 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 9:13 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13 9:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 10:23 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13 20:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 0:13 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 18:32 ` tomas
2023-08-12 22:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 23:09 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 5:50 ` tomas
2023-08-13 8:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 15:54 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-13 8:00 ` Andreas Schwab
2023-08-13 9:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 7:27 ` Alfred M. Szmidt [this message]
2023-08-14 7:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 7:50 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-15 22:57 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-16 10:27 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19 13:29 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 5:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 6:51 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 7:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 7:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 13:01 ` tomas
2023-08-20 13:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 8:28 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 9:29 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 15:22 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 15:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 15:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 15:54 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 16:29 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 16:37 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 17:19 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 17:31 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 18:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 19:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-27 3:53 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 19:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 19:24 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 2:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 4:11 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 4:15 ` Po Lu
2023-08-21 4:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 4:43 ` Po Lu
2023-08-21 5:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 5:25 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-21 5:34 ` Po Lu
2023-08-21 9:17 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 9:42 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 10:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 14:49 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Andrea Corallo
2023-08-23 10:11 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25 9:19 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-25 11:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25 14:26 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-26 11:14 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 1:40 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 7:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 13:42 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 22:19 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 5:04 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-28 19:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 0:47 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 8:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 17:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 11:05 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 11:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:33 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-21 11:34 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-08-21 11:02 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR (was: Shrinking the C core) Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:12 ` Add more supported primitives in libgccjit IR Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:53 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 2:04 ` Shrinking the C core Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 7:59 ` Gregory Heytings
2023-08-27 5:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 6:16 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 10:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-28 4:41 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 11:27 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:15 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 20:39 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 5:59 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 6:23 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 7:21 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 7:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 7:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 10:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-27 4:01 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 8:53 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 3:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 9:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 3:25 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 8:55 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 16:03 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 16:34 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 17:19 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 17:25 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 18:54 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-20 19:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 20:11 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-23 21:09 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 2:01 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-26 5:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-26 18:15 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-26 18:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 19:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-20 19:44 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:11 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 2:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 8:48 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 11:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:59 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 12:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 10:13 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-20 20:32 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-21 6:19 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 6:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 7:21 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 7:25 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 7:52 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-21 11:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 23:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-23 7:04 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-23 17:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-24 20:02 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-20 21:51 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-08-21 8:54 ` Type declarations in Elisp (was: [External] : Re: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 9:30 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-21 11:13 ` Type declarations in Elisp Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-21 11:37 ` Type declarations in Elisp (was: [External] : Re: Shrinking the C core) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 5:34 ` Type declarations in Elisp Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-22 6:16 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-22 11:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-22 23:33 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-25 9:29 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-25 20:42 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-27 8:42 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 14:04 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 14:07 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 15:46 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-27 17:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 18:06 ` Andrea Corallo
2023-08-28 9:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28 19:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-18 8:35 ` Shrinking the C core Aurélien Aptel
2023-08-19 13:32 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-31 1:41 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 2:36 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-14 4:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-14 11:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 3:28 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-12 3:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 3:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-12 6:00 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-12 6:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-12 7:38 ` Christopher Dimech
2023-08-09 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-09 16:11 ` Eric S. Raymond
2023-08-09 16:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-09 17:57 ` Eric S. Raymond
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-08-13 7:59 Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-13 8:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 8:06 Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-13 9:26 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-13 11:20 Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-13 12:52 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 15:14 Arthur Miller
2023-08-27 16:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-28 5:32 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-08-28 6:23 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 6:21 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 1:31 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-28 5:50 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 12:20 ` Po Lu
2023-08-28 14:39 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 15:17 ` Po Lu
2023-08-29 2:41 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 1:41 ` Po Lu
2023-08-28 2:53 ` chad
2023-08-28 3:43 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 4:53 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 5:36 ` Po Lu
2023-08-28 6:55 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 7:31 ` Po Lu
2023-08-28 8:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28 14:30 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 15:09 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-29 2:20 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 15:14 ` Po Lu
2023-08-29 2:36 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-29 4:07 ` Po Lu
2023-08-31 1:07 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-28 14:08 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-28 15:08 ` Po Lu
2023-08-29 2:06 ` Arthur Miller
2023-08-29 4:15 ` Po Lu
2023-08-29 11:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-29 3:57 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-01 1:18 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-31 2:07 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-01 14:58 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-01 16:36 ` tomas
2023-09-04 1:32 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-04 1:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-04 5:49 ` Rudolf Schlatte
2023-09-04 14:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 1:21 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-07 1:54 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 7:02 ` tomas
2023-09-07 7:36 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-09-07 7:56 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 8:19 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-07 8:39 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 9:28 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-09-09 1:00 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-09 6:25 ` Po Lu
2023-09-09 7:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-07 9:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-07 9:39 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-09 1:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-11 0:43 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-11 12:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-11 12:43 ` tomas
2023-09-13 5:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-12 4:44 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-09-12 12:25 ` João Távora
2023-09-12 11:31 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-09-13 6:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-05 4:23 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-06 0:58 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-06 1:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-06 5:04 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-06 11:29 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-09-06 23:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 7:00 ` tomas
2023-09-07 7:23 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 7:52 ` tomas
2023-09-07 5:30 ` Po Lu
2023-09-07 6:15 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-11 0:43 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-11 12:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-12 23:55 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-13 6:34 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 8:51 ` Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-09-07 9:20 ` Po Lu
2023-09-07 9:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-08 2:00 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-08 7:35 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-09-09 10:05 ` João Távora
2023-09-08 17:58 ` Bob Rogers
2023-09-15 21:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-17 23:03 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09 0:39 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09 12:50 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-12 0:27 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-28 7:45 ` Andrea Monaco
2023-08-28 14:35 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-12 3:46 Arthur Miller
2023-09-12 11:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-12 18:22 ` chad
2023-09-12 18:47 ` Yuri Khan
2023-09-12 19:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-12 19:07 ` joakim
2023-09-12 19:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-12 21:56 ` joakim
2023-09-13 5:05 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-13 14:29 ` joakim
2023-09-15 5:46 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-13 15:33 ` Fraga, Eric
2023-09-15 5:51 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-15 11:38 ` Fraga, Eric
2023-09-12 3:51 Arthur Miller
2023-09-12 4:47 ` tomas
2023-09-12 11:29 ` Po Lu
2023-09-12 13:02 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-09-13 5:06 Arthur Miller
2023-09-13 6:33 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-09-14 11:35 ` Arthur Miller
2023-09-14 13:03 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-09-14 13:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-15 17:11 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-15 18:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
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