[ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Adam Porter]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 663 bytes --]

Hi Stefan, et al,

I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.

https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el

It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two 
years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users install and 
use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and in Nix (and having 
it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging work as well).  I use it 
every day, and there are no major known bugs, so it seems like a good 
time to submit it.  I have plans for further development as well, but 
they need not hold back publishing on ELPA.

Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.

Thanks,
Adam

[-- Attachment #2: 0001-elpa-packages-ement-New-package.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 762 bytes --]

From 6a53c73a36a1cccaeea4f2a7e6b0cba553993575 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 23:23:41 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (ement): New package

---
 elpa-packages | 3 +++
 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+)

diff --git a/elpa-packages b/elpa-packages
index 644fda1433..0210440ae8 100644
--- a/elpa-packages
+++ b/elpa-packages
@@ -270,6 +270,9 @@
   :url "https://github.com/oantolin/embark"
   :ignored-files ("embark.el" "embark.texi" "avy-embark-collect.el")
   :auto-sync t)
+("ement"                :url "https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el.git"
+  :doc "README.org"
+  :auto-sync t)
  ("emms"		:url "https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/emms.git"
   :doc "doc/emms.texinfo"
   :auto-sync t)
-- 
2.34.0

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Philip Kaludercic]

Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:

> Hi Stefan, et al,
>
> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.
>
> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>
> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users install
> and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and in Nix (and
> having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging work as well).  I
> use it every day, and there are no major known bugs, so it seems like
> a good time to submit it.  I have plans for further development as
> well, but they need not hold back publishing on ELPA.

Glad to see the package is ready!

> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.

For some reason ELPA is complaining about missing copyright notices in
my checkout:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
$ make build/ement
emacs --no-site-lisp --batch -l /home/philip/Source/elpa/admin/elpa-admin.el	\
         -f elpaa-batch-make-one-package ement
Not pushed to origin yet.  Not updating worktree
======== Building tarball archive-devel/ement-0.1.0.20220902.3605.tar...
Problem with copyright notices:
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-taxy.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-structs.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-room.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-room-list.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-notify.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-macros.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-lib.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-api.el
Build error for archive-devel/ement-0.1.0.20220902.3605.tar: (error "Abort")
######## Build of package archive-devel/ement-0.1.0.20220902.3605.tar FAILED!!
======== Building tarball archive/ement-0.1.tar...
Problem with copyright notices:
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-taxy.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-structs.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-room.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-room-list.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-notify.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-macros.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-lib.el
Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-api.el
Build error for archive/ement-0.1.tar: (error "Abort")
######## Build of package archive/ement-0.1.tar FAILED!!
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I believe it is because the copyright should be assigned to "Free
Software Foundation, Inc", not just "Free Software Foundation".

> Thanks,
> Adam

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Philip Kaludercic]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:
>
>> Hi Stefan, et al,
>>
>> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.
>>
>> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>>
>> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
>> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users install
>> and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and in Nix (and
>> having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging work as well).  I
>> use it every day, and there are no major known bugs, so it seems like
>> a good time to submit it.  I have plans for further development as
>> well, but they need not hold back publishing on ELPA.
>
> Glad to see the package is ready!
>
>> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.
>
> For some reason ELPA is complaining about missing copyright notices in
> my checkout:
>
> $ make build/ement
> emacs --no-site-lisp --batch -l /home/philip/Source/elpa/admin/elpa-admin.el	\
>          -f elpaa-batch-make-one-package ement
> Not pushed to origin yet.  Not updating worktree
> ======== Building tarball archive-devel/ement-0.1.0.20220902.3605.tar...
> Problem with copyright notices:
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-taxy.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-structs.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-room.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-room-list.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-notify.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-macros.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-lib.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-api.el
> Build error for archive-devel/ement-0.1.0.20220902.3605.tar: (error "Abort")
> ######## Build of package archive-devel/ement-0.1.0.20220902.3605.tar FAILED!!
> ======== Building tarball archive/ement-0.1.tar...
> Problem with copyright notices:
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-taxy.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-structs.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-room.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-room-list.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-notify.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-macros.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-lib.el
> Missing copyright notice in ement/ement-api.el
> Build error for archive/ement-0.1.tar: (error "Abort")
> ######## Build of package archive/ement-0.1.tar FAILED!!
>
> I believe it is because the copyright should be assigned to "Free
> Software Foundation, Inc", not just "Free Software Foundation".

Another point, the repository seems to contain a "NOTES.org" symlink
that points to some file that doesn't exist in my checkout, and probably
won't exist either in the ELPA tarball.  Shouldn't the file therefore
also be added to .elpaignore?

>> Thanks,
>> Adam

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Tassilo Horn]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

>> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.
>>
>> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>>
>> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
>> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users install
>> and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and in Nix (and
>> having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging work as well).  I
>> use it every day, and there are no major known bugs, so it seems like
>> a good time to submit it.  I have plans for further development as
>> well, but they need not hold back publishing on ELPA.
>
> Glad to see the package is ready!

Yes, thanks, Adam!

>> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.
>
> For some reason ELPA is complaining about missing copyright notices in
> my checkout:

I guess the files should say something like

  ;; Copyright (C) 2011-2022 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

instead of

  ;; Copyright (C) 2020  Adam Porter

because the copyright has been assigned to the FSF if it appears on
ELPA.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Adam Porter]

Hi Philip,

On 9/2/22 04:21, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:
> 
>> Hi Stefan, et al,
>> 
>> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU 
>> ELPA.
>> 
>> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>> 
>> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
>> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users 
>> install and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and 
>> in Nix (and having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging 
>> work as well).  I use it every day, and there are no major known 
>> bugs, so it seems like a good time to submit it.  I have plans for 
>> further development as well, but they need not hold back publishing
>> on ELPA.
> 
> Glad to see the package is ready!
> 
>> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.
> 
> For some reason ELPA is complaining about missing copyright notices 
> in my checkout:
> 
> I believe it is because the copyright should be assigned to "Free 
> Software Foundation, Inc", not just "Free Software Foundation".

Oops.  I've added the missing ", Inc." to the copyright notices.

> Another point, the repository seems to contain a "NOTES.org" symlink
>  that points to some file that doesn't exist in my checkout, and > 
> probably won't exist either in the ELPA tarball.  Shouldn't the file 
> therefore also be added to .elpaignore?
Also done.

Thanks,
Adam

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Philip Kaludercic]

Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:

> Hi Philip,
>
> On 9/2/22 04:21, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> Adam Porter <adam@alphapapa.net> writes:
>> 
>>> Hi Stefan, et al,
>>> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.
>>> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>>> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
>>> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users
>>> install and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and
>>> in Nix (and having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging
>>> work as well).  I use it every day, and there are no major known
>>> bugs, so it seems like a good time to submit it.  I have plans for
>>> further development as well, but they need not hold back publishing
>>> on ELPA.
>> Glad to see the package is ready!
>> 
>>> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.
>> For some reason ELPA is complaining about missing copyright notices
>> in my checkout:
>> I believe it is because the copyright should be assigned to "Free
>> Software Foundation, Inc", not just "Free Software Foundation".
>
> Oops.  I've added the missing ", Inc." to the copyright notices.
>
>> Another point, the repository seems to contain a "NOTES.org" symlink
>>  that points to some file that doesn't exist in my checkout, and >
>> probably won't exist either in the ELPA tarball.  Shouldn't the file
>> therefore also be added to .elpaignore?
> Also done.

Great, I've pushed the package specification to elpa.git.

> Thanks,
> Adam

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Payas Relekar]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

Just a thought. Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.

Any chance of that happening? Thoughts?

Thanks,
Payas

>>>> Hi Stefan, et al,
>>>> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.
>>>> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>>>> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
>>>> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users
>>>> install and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and
>>>> in Nix (and having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging
>>>> work as well).  I use it every day, and there are no major known
>>>> bugs, so it seems like a good time to submit it.  I have plans for
>>>> further development as well, but they need not hold back publishing
>>>> on ELPA.
>>> Glad to see the package is ready!
>>>
>>>> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.
>
> Great, I've pushed the package specification to elpa.git.
>
>> Thanks,
>> Adam
>
>

--

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Philip Kaludercic]

Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>
> Just a thought. Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
>
> Any chance of that happening? Thoughts?

I don't get to decide anything like that, but it seems unlikely
considering that Ement still has a number of dependencies that aren't
available in the core.

From what I see the package is larger than ever ERC -- probably by
necessity -- and I personally think it is questionable that Emacs has
two IRC clients bundled by default (the other one being rcirc).

> Thanks,
> Payas
>
>>>>> Hi Stefan, et al,
>>>>> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.
>>>>> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>>>>> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
>>>>> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users
>>>>> install and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and
>>>>> in Nix (and having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging
>>>>> work as well).  I use it every day, and there are no major known
>>>>> bugs, so it seems like a good time to submit it.  I have plans for
>>>>> further development as well, but they need not hold back publishing
>>>>> on ELPA.
>>>> Glad to see the package is ready!
>>>>
>>>>> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.
>>
>> Great, I've pushed the package specification to elpa.git.
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adam
>>
>>
>
> --

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Payas Relekar]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Just a thought. Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
>> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
>>
>> Any chance of that happening? Thoughts?
>
> I don't get to decide anything like that, but it seems unlikely
> considering that Ement still has a number of dependencies that aren't
> available in the core.
>
> From what I see the package is larger than ever ERC -- probably by
> necessity --

Oh it is definitely by necessity. The Matrix protocol handles images,
referenced replies, videos just to name a few. Compared to IRC, it is
surely larger.

> and I personally think it is questionable that Emacs has
> two IRC clients bundled by default (the other one being rcirc).

Emacs also holds Tetris and there will probably be riots if that is ever
questioned :)

Jokes aside, Emacs has long been not-just-a-text-editor. Reading/sending
Emails has been supported since 80s. There is even a web browser
included (and it sees regular use in my Emacs mail client to render
shitty HTML emails).

Both IRC and now Matrix (as contemporary semi/real-time communication
mechanism) seem quite appropriate.

Dependencies argument is valid, but perhaps that is better discussed upon
by Adam and Emacs maintainers.

Thanks,
Payas

--

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Stefan Monnier]

Payas Relekar [2022-09-02 20:23:38] wrote:
> Just a thought.  Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
> Any chance of that happening?  Thoughts?

I think adding packages to core Emacs is usually a bad idea unless it's
a package contributing to the general infrastracture of ELisp (or if
it's a package that's important for some ELisp package that's already in
core).

I think the plan/intention is rather to move things out of core.
To make up for it, the intention is then to provide a new mechanism to
"bundle" some GNU ELPA packages into the "default" build of Emacs.


        Stefan

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Payas Relekar]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Payas Relekar [2022-09-02 20:23:38] wrote:
>> Just a thought.  Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
>> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
>> Any chance of that happening?  Thoughts?
>
> I think adding packages to core Emacs is usually a bad idea unless it's
> a package contributing to the general infrastracture of ELisp (or if
> it's a package that's important for some ELisp package that's already in
> core).

Fair.

> I think the plan/intention is rather to move things out of core.
> To make up for it, the intention is then to provide a new mechanism to
> "bundle" some GNU ELPA packages into the "default" build of Emacs.

Well, assuming that happens, can Ement be considered for default
bundling?


Tangential, but I'm assuming you mean something in between current org/modus-themes
development model where upstream is periodically merged to core and
ELPA, but just to clarify, is that what you mean, or a built-in way to
generate custom Emacs 'distribution' of sorts, or something else?

Thank,
Payas

--

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Payas Relekar]

Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> writes:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>> Payas Relekar [2022-09-02 20:23:38] wrote:
>>> Just a thought.  Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
>>> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
>>> Any chance of that happening?  Thoughts?
>>
>> I think adding packages to core Emacs is usually a bad idea unless it's
>> a package contributing to the general infrastracture of ELisp (or if
>> it's a package that's important for some ELisp package that's already in
>> core).
>
> Fair.
>
>> I think the plan/intention is rather to move things out of core.
>> To make up for it, the intention is then to provide a new mechanism to
>> "bundle" some GNU ELPA packages into the "default" build of Emacs.
>
> Well, assuming that happens, can Ement be considered for default
> bundling?

I realised this phrasing is bit presumptuous and not very answerable.

Please ignore if thats how it comes off :)

>
> Tangential, but I'm assuming you mean something in between current org/modus-themes
> development model where upstream is periodically merged to core and
> ELPA, but just to clarify, is that what you mean, or a built-in way to
> generate custom Emacs 'distribution' of sorts, or something else?

Thanks,
Payas

--

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Is there any chance of developing one general package that can handle
Matrix as weill as IRC, using the same user interface for both?


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Philip Kaludercic]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> Is there any chance of developing one general package that can handle
> Matrix as weill as IRC, using the same user interface for both?

Matrix is capable of mirroring IRC channels, so in some sense it is
already a unifying system.

Perhaps libpurple[0] could be used to create such a utility?  But I
remain sceptical, as tools like Pidgin appear to me to be
over-generalisations.

[0] https://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/WhatIsLibpurple

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Adam Porter]

On 9/2/22 21:52, Richard Stallman wrote:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] 
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] 
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. 
> ]]]
> 
> Is there any chance of developing one general package that can
> handle Matrix as weill as IRC, using the same user interface for
> both?

I don't think so.  While Matrix serves some similar purposes as IRC,
they are very different technically.

However, Matrix is designed to be able to bridge various protocols,
including IRC.  And the Libera.chat IRC network already has a Matrix
bridge, so you can join any of their channels through bridged Matrix
rooms.  For example, #emacs:libera.chat is the bridged Matrix room for
the Libera.chat #emacs IRC channel.

So, with Ement: "M-x ement-join-room RET #emacs:libera.chat RET" (after 
connecting with "M-x ement-connect RET", of course; and one can register 
an account on the matrix.org homeserver for free).

Maybe GNU/FSF would be interested in hosting a Matrix homeserver
someday.  Then there could be official rooms for various projects, like
#emacs:gnu.org for Emacs, and GNU/FSF members could have accounts on the 
server, like @rms:gnu.org.

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

There is nothing wrong with speculating about what might work better
or worse, but the thing that's truly useful is to try actually writing
an interface that handles Matrix and IRC.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Akib Azmain Turja]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1020 bytes --]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> There is nothing wrong with speculating about what might work better
> or worse, but the thing that's truly useful is to try actually writing
> an interface that handles Matrix and IRC.

Do you mean a single user interface for both Matrix and IRC?  That would
great.  But it arises another question, how should the interface look
like?  Like ERC or rcirc or Ement (assuming it has it's own UI)?  A new
library needs to be written by someone who knows at least any two of the
instant messaging protocols (IRC, Matrix, Jabber or XMPP, etc).

-- 
Akib Azmain Turja

Find me on Mastodon at @akib@hostux.social.

This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key.  Its fingerprint is:

    7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6  66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --]

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Do you mean a single user interface for both Matrix and IRC?  That would
  > great.

To have one unified chat interface in Emacs would be a conceptual
simplification -- just one interface to document -- if it can be done
cleanly.  That's what I can see.

            But it arises another question, how should the interface look
  > like?

I'm the wrong person to ask about that.  I don't use Matrix or IRC,
or any of these Emacs packages.  The specific ideas will have to come
from people who use them.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)