From: "Gerd Möllmann" <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: paaguti@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes, people want to use cl-lib?
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2023 16:49:46 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <m2pm0qq1k5.fsf@Pro.fritz.box> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <834ji27so1.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 03 Nov 2023 17:39:10 +0200")
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com>
>> Cc: paaguti@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2023 16:30:47 +0100
>>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> >> From: Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@gmail.com>
>> >> Cc: paaguti@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> >> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2023 16:08:09 +0100
>> >>
>> >> What I'm missing is a positive reason why to use it. I don't see one.
>> >
>> > It's preloaded. I think this is a good reason for using it.
>>
>> Sparing 10^-7 seconds, when cl-lib is already loaded anyway?
>
> These are not the only situations in Emacs. For example, in preloaded
> code.
>
>> > The fact
>> > that it's preloaded should also say something about how the Emacs
>> > maintainers see seq.el and its future.
>>
>> I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but that's kind of a weak
>> argument. And an entirely non-technical one.
>
> When we decided to preload it, the reasons were technical. So I don't
> see why the above is not a technical argument.
I'm sorry, but I think this leads nowhere.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-11-03 15:49 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 395+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-11-03 8:21 What's missing in ELisp that makes, people want to use cl-lib? Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-11-03 9:27 ` João Távora
2023-11-03 10:43 ` Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
2023-11-03 13:37 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-03 14:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-03 15:08 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-03 15:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-03 15:30 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-03 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-03 15:49 ` Gerd Möllmann [this message]
2023-11-06 2:27 ` seq.el and the complexity of Emacs Lisp Richard Stallman
2023-11-06 6:51 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-11-06 7:16 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-07 10:24 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 21:02 ` Jim Porter
2023-11-09 21:20 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 23:49 ` Jim Porter
2023-11-09 23:53 ` Jim Porter
2023-11-10 2:31 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 3:27 ` Jim Porter
2023-11-10 10:03 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-10 12:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-10 10:13 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-10 10:26 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 13:30 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-08 3:08 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-08 5:31 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-08 3:08 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-06 8:11 ` Björn Bidar
2023-11-06 12:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-06 21:43 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 5:21 ` tomas
2023-11-07 5:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 6:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 12:02 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-11-07 12:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-07 12:29 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 11:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-07 12:26 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-08 3:08 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <874jhz9u8z.fsf@>
2023-11-06 12:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-06 12:50 ` Björn Bidar
2023-11-06 21:30 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 7:35 ` Harald Judt
2023-11-07 10:14 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 12:26 ` Harald Judt
2023-11-07 12:38 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-11-07 12:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-07 13:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 14:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-10-19 1:28 Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Richard Stallman
2023-10-19 5:27 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-19 7:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-19 12:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-23 2:08 ` Richard Stallman
2023-10-23 11:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 2:47 ` Richard Stallman
2023-10-25 7:57 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-26 2:27 ` Richard Stallman
2023-10-26 6:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-26 10:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-10-26 11:32 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-10-26 19:47 ` Bob Rogers
2023-10-28 3:20 ` Richard Stallman
2023-10-28 15:39 ` What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Stefan Kangas
2023-10-28 16:18 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-10-28 18:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-28 19:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-10-28 19:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-28 19:36 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-10-28 19:10 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-28 19:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-28 21:03 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-29 6:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-30 2:09 ` Richard Stallman
2023-10-30 17:13 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-30 2:09 ` Richard Stallman
2023-10-31 2:31 ` Adam Porter
2023-10-31 3:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-31 10:38 ` João Távora
2023-11-02 2:28 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-02 2:42 ` Jim Porter
2023-11-02 8:55 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-11-02 9:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-02 21:26 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-11-03 1:51 ` Bob Rogers
2023-11-03 2:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-03 19:51 ` Bob Rogers
2023-11-03 20:32 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-03 22:33 ` Bob Rogers
2023-11-03 22:46 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-04 9:34 ` Stephen Berman
2023-11-05 18:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-07 16:17 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-08 14:19 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-08 15:00 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87r0l070jt.fsf@>
2023-11-08 17:18 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-08 17:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-08 20:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-08 21:10 ` João Távora
2023-11-08 23:17 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-09 10:05 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-09 11:06 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 11:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-09 12:34 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 13:38 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 15:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-09 15:29 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-09 15:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 13:10 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 13:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 14:07 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 14:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 14:54 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 16:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-09 15:39 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-09 16:23 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 13:45 ` Po Lu
2023-11-09 14:28 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 14:39 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 0:02 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 2:23 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 2:42 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 11:11 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 12:52 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 13:08 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 13:39 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 14:18 ` Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-11-10 21:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-11 1:11 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 1:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-11 1:58 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 15:54 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-12 0:22 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 6:01 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-11 7:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 13:09 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 13:17 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 13:39 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 14:06 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 14:43 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 13:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 14:01 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 14:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 14:22 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 14:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 14:39 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 15:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 14:53 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-11 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 18:07 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-11 20:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 20:53 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-12 6:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-12 7:22 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-12 11:28 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-14 2:58 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-12 6:59 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-12 8:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-13 6:28 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-13 14:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-13 16:38 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-16 3:04 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-11 21:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-12 2:36 ` João Távora
2023-11-12 6:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-12 10:21 ` João Távora
2023-11-12 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-12 14:34 ` João Távora
2023-11-12 7:11 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-12 22:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-12 23:14 ` João Távora
2023-11-13 0:25 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-13 1:03 ` João Távora
2023-11-13 2:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-14 0:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-14 2:27 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 2:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-14 10:34 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 11:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-14 12:14 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 12:20 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-14 12:50 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 2:44 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 2:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-14 15:45 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-14 23:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-14 23:52 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 0:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-15 1:07 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 1:17 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 1:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-15 1:28 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-15 12:14 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 14:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-15 15:02 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 15:29 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 19:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-15 19:56 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-15 23:25 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-16 0:28 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 5:45 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-16 14:30 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 16:02 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 16:24 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 17:44 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-16 20:06 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 20:12 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-17 14:16 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-16 20:09 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-16 21:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-17 2:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-11-17 2:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-17 7:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-17 6:08 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-17 7:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-17 16:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-11-18 5:58 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-20 14:56 ` Augusto Stoffel
2023-11-17 14:45 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-17 2:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-21 2:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-16 13:23 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 14:40 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 15:24 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 15:29 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 13:43 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 14:36 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 15:16 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 15:24 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 16:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-16 17:40 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 21:58 ` João Távora
2023-11-17 6:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-17 10:44 ` João Távora
2023-11-17 10:47 ` João Távora
2023-11-17 12:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-17 13:14 ` João Távora
2023-11-17 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-17 15:17 ` João Távora
2023-11-18 6:14 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-17 14:49 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-17 15:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-18 3:03 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-14 6:06 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-13 8:35 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-13 11:21 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 14:43 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-15 5:59 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-16 15:22 ` João Távora
2023-11-12 2:57 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-12 6:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-14 2:58 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-14 3:31 ` Sebastián Monía
2023-11-14 12:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-15 18:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-16 1:33 ` T.V Raman
2023-11-14 8:13 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-11-14 10:38 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 10:55 ` Po Lu
2023-11-14 11:47 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 14:04 ` Po Lu
2023-11-14 14:19 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 15:02 ` Po Lu
2023-11-14 15:35 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 0:13 ` Po Lu
2023-11-15 10:28 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 10:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-15 10:56 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 12:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-15 13:15 ` Po Lu
2023-11-15 13:28 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 13:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-14 17:40 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-11-15 0:53 ` João Távora
2023-11-14 16:47 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-11-21 2:43 ` Richard Stallman
2024-01-03 4:11 ` Richard Stallman
2024-01-03 11:55 ` João Távora
2024-01-03 13:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-01-03 12:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-12 7:30 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-12 23:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-15 14:41 ` Augusto Stoffel
2023-11-15 14:51 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 21:21 ` Augusto Stoffel
2023-11-16 0:28 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 14:36 ` Augusto Stoffel
2023-11-16 14:57 ` João Távora
2023-11-16 15:42 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-16 16:03 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 15:23 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 16:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 16:41 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 16:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-11 13:37 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 13:50 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 13:58 ` João Távora
2023-11-12 0:18 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 13:20 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-09 15:23 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-10 0:31 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 2:09 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 3:17 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 10:54 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 13:14 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 14:18 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 0:38 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 12:10 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 13:03 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 13:20 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 13:35 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 18:13 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-12 0:25 ` Po Lu
2023-11-12 1:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-12 7:15 ` Po Lu
2023-11-12 23:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-13 5:16 ` Po Lu
2023-11-13 6:35 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 18:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-13 3:07 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-10 21:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-11 1:14 ` Po Lu
2023-12-05 10:45 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-10 21:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-11 1:23 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 6:11 ` tomas
2023-11-11 12:27 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 6:24 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-11 20:42 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-12 7:42 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-12 23:22 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-13 8:52 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-13 11:31 ` João Távora
2023-11-15 23:26 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-11 12:16 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 12:52 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 2:04 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 8:20 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-10 10:42 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 11:36 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 12:12 ` Po Lu
2023-11-10 14:39 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-11 0:12 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 6:34 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-11 7:49 ` Po Lu
2023-11-11 8:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-15 14:50 ` Augusto Stoffel
2023-11-12 2:57 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-10 14:35 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-10 7:05 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-10 13:16 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-10 14:23 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 14:34 ` Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-11-11 1:33 ` Po Lu
2023-11-09 3:17 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-09 3:59 ` T.V Raman
2023-11-09 7:24 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-09 10:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-09 11:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-09 12:40 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 13:36 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-09 13:41 ` João Távora
2023-11-09 13:59 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-10 12:13 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-10 12:53 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 13:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-10 14:25 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-10 14:35 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 15:11 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-10 15:14 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 15:47 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-10 16:10 ` João Távora
2023-11-10 20:24 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-11 11:53 ` João Távora
2023-11-11 6:21 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-11 13:20 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-11 6:08 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-11 12:50 ` João Távora
2023-11-13 3:07 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-09 13:42 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-09 13:07 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-09 12:19 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-09 14:49 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-09 15:12 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-09 15:13 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-09 20:04 ` Bob Rogers
2023-11-11 3:13 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-11 19:47 ` Bob Rogers
2023-11-13 3:07 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-13 5:11 ` Bob Rogers
2023-11-15 3:21 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-09 19:36 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-03 2:22 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-03 7:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-03 7:48 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-11-03 7:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-03 8:13 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-11-12 2:57 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-12 11:08 ` Petteri Hintsanen
2023-11-12 11:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-12 23:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-12-21 4:20 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-02 11:07 ` João Távora
2023-11-02 11:18 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-01 1:51 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-01 1:51 ` Richard Stallman
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=m2pm0qq1k5.fsf@Pro.fritz.box \
--to=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com \
--cc=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=paaguti@gmail.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).