From: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com>
Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:43:55 +0000 (UTC) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <m18ytD9-000IeGC@rattlesnake.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <buok7ekxo4l.fsf@mcspd15.ucom.lsi.nec.co.jp> (message from Miles Bader on 28 Mar 2003 10:42:50 +0900)
Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> wrote
... I would _hate_ it if emacs insisted on preventing me from
scrolling `past the end.' [There are various reasons; sometimes I
want to hide distracting text, sometimes I want to align text in
adjacent windows a particular way, etc.]
I agree. We must able to scroll `past the end.'
The question is
* How should you display scrolling past the end?
- In Emacs 21.3 (current CVS): by displaying the whole thumb,
until last character of the buffer is in the top line of the
window.
This means that in a short buffer, such as the initial
*Messages* buffer in a plain Emacs 21.3 started with
emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'
the thumb does *not* show it is displaying `all' of the
buffer, but shows the post-end-of-buffer empty lines too.
- In Emacs 20.7: by letting the scroll bar `sink' into the
space below it, so it gets smaller and smaller, until the last
character of the buffer is in the top line of the window.
I prefer the Emacs 20.7 way of doing it; that way, I don't think of
the thumb as telling me that the buffer is larger than it really is.
(My major use of the thumb and scroll bar is as a reporter; it tells
me where I am in the buffer and how large the buffer is.)
It is worth noting that a buffer is divided into three parts:
* visible, accessible text
* invisible text
* inaccessible text from narrowing
and a window `contains' those three parts as well as
* post-eob empty lines
In addition to the question of how to display `scrolling past the
end', we have a question of
* What fraction of a whole buffer should a thumb show?
- the visible text portion of the whole buffer, regardless of
narrowing, that is in the window displaying the buffer?
- the visible, accessible portion of the whole buffer plus the
invisible text that is `contained' within the window?
- the portion of the visible region of the whole buffer that is
displayed within the window?
I prefer that the thumb show the visible accessible portion of the
whole, that is to say, the part that is accessible either because it
is visible or because it is not hidden by narrowing.
This means that if you make some text invisible, for example by type
`C-c C-t' (hide-body) in outline mode, the thumb grows larger.
Likewise, if you make some text invisible and inaccessible by
narrowing to a smaller region, the thumb grows larger.
This is the way it is done in Emacs 20.7.
--
Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises
http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-03-28 12:43 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 143+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-03-25 14:51 Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Kai Großjohann
2003-03-25 18:54 ` Jan D.
2003-03-25 19:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-26 18:26 ` Jan D.
2003-03-26 19:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-27 3:29 ` Richard Stallman
2003-03-27 14:51 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-27 15:48 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-27 16:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-27 21:07 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-27 21:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-27 21:42 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-27 21:41 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-27 22:18 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-27 22:46 ` Jody Goldberg
2003-03-28 2:15 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-28 4:28 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-28 6:07 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-29 18:38 ` Richard Stallman
2003-03-28 13:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-28 13:55 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-27 16:50 ` Andreas Schwab
2003-03-27 18:27 ` Jan D.
2003-03-27 20:54 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-28 1:48 ` Miles Bader
2003-03-28 1:42 ` Miles Bader
2003-03-28 1:51 ` Miles Bader
2003-03-28 15:04 ` Kim F. Storm
[not found] ` <m21y0rruj4.fsf@primate.xs4all.nl>
2003-03-28 23:57 ` Kim F. Storm
[not found] ` <m2wuijqdu3.fsf@primate.xs4all.nl>
2003-03-29 1:26 ` Kim F. Storm
2003-03-31 7:52 ` Miles Bader
2003-03-31 11:04 ` Kim F. Storm
2003-03-28 12:43 ` Robert J. Chassell [this message]
2003-03-28 13:34 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-28 15:11 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-03-28 15:50 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-28 13:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-28 16:18 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-03-28 16:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-29 18:39 ` Richard Stallman
2003-03-29 18:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-03-28 15:20 ` Richard Stallman
2003-03-28 15:44 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-28 18:25 ` Jan D.
2003-03-27 18:41 ` Jan D.
2003-03-28 15:21 ` Richard Stallman
2003-03-28 17:27 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-30 19:24 ` Richard Stallman
2003-03-31 18:12 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-31 22:06 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-31 22:16 ` Owen Taylor
2003-03-31 22:27 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-31 23:29 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-03-31 22:23 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-04-01 0:28 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-01 17:48 ` Owen Taylor
2003-04-02 1:39 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-02 2:30 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-01 9:38 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-01 17:26 ` Owen Taylor
2003-04-02 1:33 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-02 3:30 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-02 3:55 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-02 4:29 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-02 4:42 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-02 11:07 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-02 13:52 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-02 13:11 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-02 14:42 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-02 14:03 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-03 10:38 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-07 15:35 ` Owen Taylor
2003-04-07 16:57 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-04-07 18:30 ` Owen Taylor
2003-04-07 18:38 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-04-07 18:57 ` Owen Taylor
2003-04-07 19:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-04-07 19:21 ` Owen Taylor
2003-04-07 19:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-04-08 2:30 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-08 14:56 ` Owen Taylor
2003-04-08 23:36 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-09 1:58 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-09 14:46 ` Owen Taylor
2003-04-10 6:22 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-10 6:48 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-11 8:51 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-10 17:37 ` Jan D.
2003-04-11 8:51 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-11 12:26 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-11 12:53 ` Jan D.
2003-04-11 13:08 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-11 14:02 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-11 14:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-04-11 15:33 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-12 3:02 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-12 8:56 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-12 11:58 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-12 14:56 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-12 14:58 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-13 11:22 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-15 1:24 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-15 1:31 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-15 1:42 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-15 7:18 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-15 13:01 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-16 4:39 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-17 3:59 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-17 4:09 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-11 15:23 ` Andreas Schwab
2003-04-11 16:30 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-11 16:55 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-04-11 20:42 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-11 21:33 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-04-12 0:05 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-12 0:47 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-12 2:11 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-11 19:09 ` NEWS and invisible text Stefan Monnier
2003-04-14 23:09 ` Kevin Rodgers
2003-04-21 0:59 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-11 16:36 ` Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Robert J. Chassell
2003-04-11 17:07 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-04-11 17:46 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-11 21:13 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-04-12 17:07 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-11 13:12 ` Luc Teirlinck
2003-04-11 16:13 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-04-12 17:07 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-10 17:33 ` Jan D.
2003-04-02 12:56 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-04-02 14:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-04-03 1:34 ` Miles Bader
2003-04-03 15:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-04-02 9:19 ` Richard Stallman
2003-03-28 18:12 ` Jan D.
2003-03-28 22:25 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-03-28 22:35 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-03-29 17:06 ` Jan D.
2003-03-26 16:47 ` Richard Stallman
2003-03-26 18:32 ` Jan D.
2003-03-27 19:04 ` Richard Stallman
2003-04-01 19:29 ` Kai Großjohann
[not found] <200303271914.h2RJEdbL026474@stubby.bodenonline.com>
[not found] ` <3E834774.6080604@swipnet.se>
[not found] ` <200303271904.h2RJ48b0029268@rum.cs.yale.edu>
2003-03-27 23:23 ` Stefan Monnier
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