From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:43:55 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20030325193739.ZGIN3924.fep01-svc.swip.net@gaffa.gaia.swipnet.se> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1048855673 6277 80.91.224.249 (28 Mar 2003 12:47:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:47:53 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 28 13:47:52 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18ytGy-0001d4-00 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:47:52 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18ytJK-0003qh-00 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:50:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18ytFA-0000AM-07 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:46:00 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18ytEC-0007lT-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:45:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18ytDw-0007CR-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:44:45 -0500 Original-Received: from megalith.rattlesnake.com ([140.186.114.245] helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18ytDC-0006gC-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:43:59 -0500 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:43:55 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Miles Bader on 28 Mar 2003 10:42:50 +0900) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:12693 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:12693 Miles Bader wrote ... I would _hate_ it if emacs insisted on preventing me from scrolling `past the end.' [There are various reasons; sometimes I want to hide distracting text, sometimes I want to align text in adjacent windows a particular way, etc.] I agree. We must able to scroll `past the end.' The question is * How should you display scrolling past the end? - In Emacs 21.3 (current CVS): by displaying the whole thumb, until last character of the buffer is in the top line of the window. This means that in a short buffer, such as the initial *Messages* buffer in a plain Emacs 21.3 started with emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)' the thumb does *not* show it is displaying `all' of the buffer, but shows the post-end-of-buffer empty lines too. - In Emacs 20.7: by letting the scroll bar `sink' into the space below it, so it gets smaller and smaller, until the last character of the buffer is in the top line of the window. I prefer the Emacs 20.7 way of doing it; that way, I don't think of the thumb as telling me that the buffer is larger than it really is. (My major use of the thumb and scroll bar is as a reporter; it tells me where I am in the buffer and how large the buffer is.) It is worth noting that a buffer is divided into three parts: * visible, accessible text * invisible text * inaccessible text from narrowing and a window `contains' those three parts as well as * post-eob empty lines In addition to the question of how to display `scrolling past the end', we have a question of * What fraction of a whole buffer should a thumb show? - the visible text portion of the whole buffer, regardless of narrowing, that is in the window displaying the buffer? - the visible, accessible portion of the whole buffer plus the invisible text that is `contained' within the window? - the portion of the visible region of the whole buffer that is displayed within the window? I prefer that the thumb show the visible accessible portion of the whole, that is to say, the part that is accessible either because it is visible or because it is not hidden by narrowing. This means that if you make some text invisible, for example by type `C-c C-t' (hide-body) in outline mode, the thumb grows larger. Likewise, if you make some text invisible and inaccessible by narrowing to a smaller region, the thumb grows larger. This is the way it is done in Emacs 20.7. -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com