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From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, arne_bab@web.de, jporterbugs@gmail.com,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 22:39:25 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <bd688d7c-1588-43f3-49db-c90d1312fad8@gutov.dev> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83o7nj7mfn.fsf@gnu.org>

On 19/04/2023 21:32, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:14:06 +0300
>> Cc: arne_bab@web.de, jporterbugs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
>>
>> On 19/04/2023 21:07, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> It has similar problems: it will automatically update packages
>>> mentioned in package--safely-upgradeable-builtins, which might not be
>>> what users want for built-in packages.
>>
>> IMO that kind of choice could be deferred to the maintainer of each
>> individual package.
> 
> No, it cannot, and this and the sibling discussions show why: the
> package maintainers are biased in favor of their packages.  That
> (completely understandable and expected) bias prevents them from
> seeing the overall picture objectively.

I don't know, I never really minded that project.el and xref aren't 
upgraded too often.

Though to be honest I would still expect that, when the user types 'M-x 
package-install', they'd be able to upgrade project or xref to the 
latest version. Simply because that looks like an unambiguous request 
for this exact outcome.

>> Or make it a defcustom if you're really worried.
> 
> That doesn't change the picture, unless the default for the defcustom
> will be nil.  Which I expect João to object to, because he wants Eglot
> to be updated by default and automatically.

Only when their init script contains

   (package-install 'eglot)

or

   (use-package 'eglot :force t)

right?

> Whereas I think the
> compromise, whereby the user should say just once that he/she wants
> Eglot to be automatically updated, is a good compromise given the
> constraints in this case.  Not ideal, but a good-enough compromise.

Might be. In saying the above I'm thinking about a different issue: user 
options should be logical (as much as we possibly manage). When they 
are, they are easier to find and enable.

So if we absolutely can't resolve the problem using the solution 
previously recommended by Philip, Joao and I, we should at least choose 
the most logical among approaches containing a new user option.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-04-19 19:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found] ` <83wn2h5825.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <87wn2gkhzr.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]     ` <83cz485oxi.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <87leiwdyff.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]         ` <834jpk5hih.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <871qkom3fj.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]             ` <83mt3b4yfc.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <87edonlsxi.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]                 ` <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]                     ` <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net>
     [not found]                         ` <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                           ` <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found]                             ` <CALDnm50-Su4SAGDSBiLjt0yrjrVsvyW71NSMi=zt7uHgv7rdng@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                               ` <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found]                                 ` <CALDnm50b6hRu+4EFqQDVydOF07HdiZT4nHA=aLDjYQKtMBTk2Q@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                   ` <fc2ed4a0-2368-682d-e34d-5cf94ac261fc@gutov.dev>
     [not found]                                     ` <CALDnm527Avsa-MBTD-bvRqOn52AeBLfPvffxjL-NB3tqM=43ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                       ` <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                         ` <CALDnm53X5Yyn_EitG+iHJVx=RO2hjNaWkrgPz0+jKVWVM=eEBQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                           ` <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                             ` <CALDnm51hmRMxstQdZdstA2LrbvYw=zD5=XRVy6uCU=Z+OmONRg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                               ` <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                 ` <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev>
     [not found]                                                   ` <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                     ` <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev>
2023-04-18 12:57                                                       ` Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-18 14:02                                                         ` João Távora
2023-04-18 14:47                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-18 15:45                                                             ` João Távora
2023-04-18 16:19                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-18 17:49                                                                 ` João Távora
2023-04-18 21:19                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-18 18:56                                                         ` Jim Porter
2023-04-18 19:21                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-18 19:36                                                             ` Jim Porter
2023-04-19 11:55                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19  8:50                                                           ` João Távora
2023-04-19 12:13                                                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-04-19 17:03                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 17:21                                                                 ` João Távora
2023-04-19 18:07                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 18:14                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 18:32                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 19:33                                                                         ` João Távora
2023-04-20  4:26                                                                           ` tomas
2023-04-19 19:39                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2023-04-19 19:46                                                                           ` João Távora
2023-04-19 20:50                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 20:57                                                                               ` João Távora
2023-04-19 21:58                                                                                 ` Jim Porter
2023-04-19 22:29                                                                                   ` João Távora
2023-04-19 22:42                                                                                     ` Jim Porter
2023-04-19 22:58                                                                                       ` João Távora
2023-04-19 22:06                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 22:21                                                                                   ` Jim Porter
2023-04-19 22:27                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 22:43                                                                                       ` Jim Porter
     [not found]                                                                                 ` <f32d7008-ea39-a9d7-8224-2c5b969236b7@gutov.dev>
     [not found]                                                                                   ` <CALDnm53vPnODxpv_=nvOHRjLX-PfhyTS0MFudR0qZ3Pa-Lw-AQ@mail.gmail.com>
2023-04-19 23:25                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20  0:13                                                                                       ` João Távora
2023-04-20  1:13                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20  1:49                                                                                           ` João Távora
2023-04-20  2:04                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 19:15                                                                     ` João Távora
2023-04-20  9:38                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20  9:48                                                                         ` João Távora
2023-04-20 11:47                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 12:00                                                                             ` João Távora
2023-04-20 12:16                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 12:24                                                                                 ` João Távora
2023-04-19 17:35                                                                 ` John Yates
2023-04-19 17:42                                                                   ` João Távora
2023-04-19 18:02                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 18:04                                                                 ` Jim Porter
2023-04-19 18:34                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 19:35                                                                     ` Jim Porter
2023-04-20  9:49                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 19:40                                                                 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-04-20  6:02                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-29  5:21                                                                     ` Stability of core packages emacs
2023-04-29  6:26                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-29 21:47                                                                         ` Mohsen BANAN
2023-04-30  6:21                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-30  9:07                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-30 13:12                                                                           ` Corwin Brust
2023-05-07  5:58                                                                             ` Mohsen BANAN
2023-05-05  4:36                                                                       ` David Masterson
2023-05-05  4:56                                                                       ` David Masterson
     [not found]                                                                       ` <878re3bdj6.fsf@penguin>
2023-05-05  4:59                                                                         ` David Masterson
2023-04-19 12:55                                                             ` Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 13:18                                                               ` João Távora
2023-04-19 13:44                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 14:13                                                                   ` João Távora
2023-04-18 22:10                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19  8:34                                                           ` João Távora
2023-04-19 12:47                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 18:22                                                             ` Jim Porter
2023-04-19 18:37                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 19:32                                                                 ` Jim Porter
2023-04-19 22:51                                                                 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-04-20 13:47                                                                   ` history of ELPA packages and dependencies (was: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot)) Lynn Winebarger
2023-04-20 13:58                                                                   ` Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Lynn Winebarger
2023-04-19 19:25                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 19:40                                                               ` João Távora
2023-04-20  9:47                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 13:03                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20 14:03                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 14:22                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20 14:42                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 15:30                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20 15:49                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 17:26                                                                             ` Stability of core packages Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-20 18:46                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 21:25                                                                             ` Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-21 14:12                                                                             ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-04-19 12:31                                                         ` What is :core? (was: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot)) Lynn Winebarger
2023-04-19 12:57                                                           ` João Távora
2023-04-19 13:03                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii

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