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From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: Bastien Guerry <bzg@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2023 21:14:21 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1qZLP3-0003u7-Fw@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87cyzcwtbc.fsf@bzg.fr> (message from Bastien Guerry on Thu, 24 Aug 2023 13:52:55 +0200)

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  > FWIW, I think it is good to improve the .org format and Org tools
  > so that they are as good as .texi and Texinfo tools when it comes
  > to writing and publishing technical documentation.

The term "as good as" may suggest, incorrectly, that this is a matter
of comparing the two formats over some sense of _quality_.  But that's
not what this is about.  The improvements I've proposed for Org format
are a matter of _supporting the range of necessary constructs_.

Texinfo supports them all because I implemented them all in Texinfo.
As a result, you can express in Texinfo everything that has proved
necessary (so far, at least) in GNU documentation.

At present, that is not the case with Org format.  There are
situations in which Org format provides no way to express what needs
to be said.

  > Let's simply try to improve Org in general, and see if more GNU
  > maintainers want to use it as their native documentat format (the
  > example of Org's documentation shows it's already possible.)

We need to be careful here.  What does the existence of Org mode
documentation written in Org format actually show -- given that the
format doesn't support all the constructs that are needed in general?

It might show that the Org mode documentation doesn't make all the
textual distinctions properly -- that it fails to follow our style
guide.  If so, then it is "possible" but only with flawed output.

But not necesarily.  Perhaps it shows that the Org mode documentation
needs only a limited subset of those constructs, and those are all
implemened in Ogr format.  If so, that could mean that Org format is
fine for the Org mode manual in prticular, but is not adequate for the
whole range of our documentation.

Either way, to make Org format adequate for that whole range of
constructs, in all the output formats, will require working
specifically towards that goal.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)





  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-08-25  1:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 178+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-09-25  2:52 Org mode and Emacs Payas Relekar
2022-09-25  6:35 ` Bastien
2022-09-25  7:05   ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-25  7:47     ` Bastien
2022-09-25  8:01       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-25  8:22       ` Bastien Guerry
2022-09-25  8:01   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-25 19:47     ` Tim Cross
2022-09-26  6:12       ` Bastien
2022-09-26  6:35         ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26  6:57           ` Bastien
2023-08-18 17:09             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-18 18:31               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-18 18:49                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-18 19:11                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-18 19:31                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19  5:51                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-19  9:04                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19  9:26                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-19  9:44                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19 10:19                               ` Po Lu
2023-08-19 10:47                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-19 10:48                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-19 10:42                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-19 10:54                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21  1:12                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-21  7:56                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-08-23  2:12                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-23  9:44                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 11:01                       ` Colin Baxter
2023-08-23 11:12                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 12:49                           ` Po Lu
2023-08-23 17:18                             ` Colin Baxter
2023-08-23 17:47                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 18:02                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 18:08                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 18:18                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 18:36                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-23 18:46                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-23 18:50                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25  1:11                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-23 16:53                           ` Colin Baxter
2023-08-23 17:56                             ` Tassilo Horn
2023-08-24 11:52                     ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 17:51                       ` T.V Raman
2023-08-24 17:55                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 18:35                           ` T.V Raman
2023-08-25  1:16                         ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-25 11:45                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-25  1:14                       ` Richard Stallman [this message]
2023-08-25  9:04                         ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-25 18:56                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-08-26 10:46                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-31  2:09                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-31  8:50                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26  2:04                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-26  5:50                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-08-26 16:49                               ` Jose E. Marchesi
2023-08-26 16:56                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 20:28                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-08-26 20:58                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-30  8:11                                       ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-27  1:32                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-27  8:32                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28  1:32                                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-29  8:29                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-01  1:18                                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-01  6:46                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-04  1:32                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-04 22:05                                                 ` Juergen Fenn
2023-09-05 11:04                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06  0:58                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-06 11:29                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 12:33                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 12:43                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 12:49                                                       ` Po Lu
2023-09-06 12:54                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 13:04                                                           ` Po Lu
2023-09-06 13:10                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 13:33                                                               ` Po Lu
2023-09-06 15:28                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 13:08                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 13:20                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 15:25                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-06 16:12                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 16:34                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-09-07 11:11                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-10  0:22                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09  0:37                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09  9:36                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-10  0:22                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09  0:38                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-30  8:11                                   ` Bastien Guerry
2023-09-02  1:50                                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-02  8:19                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-02  8:30                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-08-27  1:32                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-27  8:35                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28  1:32                                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-28 10:04                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-28 11:15                                         ` Yuri Khan
2023-08-28 11:21                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-31  2:09                                         ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-31  8:53                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-04  1:33                                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-30  8:14                                   ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-30  8:32                                     ` Po Lu
2023-08-27  1:33                               ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-26  8:24           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-26  8:32           ` Jean Louis
2022-09-26  9:54             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26 11:04               ` Robert Pluim
2022-09-27 16:17               ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-30  3:41                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26 12:10       ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-26  3:02   ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26  5:37     ` Po Lu
2022-09-26  5:44       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-26  6:20       ` Bastien Guerry
2022-09-26 13:58         ` T.V Raman
2022-09-26 16:16           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-26  6:36       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-09-26  6:18     ` Bastien
2022-09-26  6:29       ` Ihor Radchenko
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-06-13  1:47 Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Christopher Dimech
2022-06-13  2:47 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-13  5:04   ` Christopher Dimech
2022-06-13  5:22     ` Org mode and Emacs Werner LEMBERG
2022-06-13  5:59       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-04 17:27 Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package Alan Mackenzie
2022-06-05  8:38 ` Michael Albinus
2022-06-05  8:51   ` Po Lu
2022-06-05 10:26     ` Tassilo Horn
2022-06-05 11:15       ` Michael Albinus
2022-06-06  0:19         ` Tim Cross
2022-06-06 11:33           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-06-06 13:57             ` Tim Cross
2022-06-06 16:02               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-07  6:14                 ` Tim Cross
2022-06-07 16:02                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-06-07 18:14                     ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Stefan Monnier
2022-06-07 18:26                       ` Org mode and Emacs Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-07 18:48                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-06-07 18:54                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-07 19:38                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-06-07 20:54                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-07 22:10                       ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Tim Cross
2022-06-08  6:06                         ` Org mode and Emacs Visuwesh
2022-06-08  6:58                           ` Tim Cross
2022-06-09 22:31                         ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Richard Stallman
2022-06-09 23:10                           ` Tim Cross
2022-06-10  5:59                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-10  6:20                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-10  6:44                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-11  4:49                                   ` Tim Cross
2022-06-11  6:58                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12  9:05                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12  9:18                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12 10:04                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 10:15                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12 10:38                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 14:36                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12 15:31                                                   ` Org mode and Emacs Colin Baxter
2022-06-15  5:19                                                   ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-15  6:46                                                     ` Org mode and Emacs David Engster
2022-06-15  7:36                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-15 13:01                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-16  5:36                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-16  5:58                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-16  9:55                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-15 13:34                                                         ` David Engster
2022-06-16  6:50                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-16 10:21                                                             ` David Engster
2022-06-15 12:50                                                     ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-16  7:03                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-16  8:13                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-16 11:12                                                           ` Mattias Engdegård
2022-06-16 12:58                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-16 16:59                                                               ` Org mode and Emacs Stefan Monnier
2022-06-16  3:19                                                     ` Pankaj Jangid
2022-06-16  4:03                                                       ` Visuwesh
2022-09-25  2:14                                                   ` Bastien
2022-06-12 22:38                                       ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Richard Stallman
2022-06-13  4:38                                         ` Org mode and Emacs Werner LEMBERG
2022-06-12  0:42                                     ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Richard Stallman
2022-06-12  1:27                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 22:38                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-14 13:18                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-14 13:38                                             ` Org mode and Emacs Robert Pluim
2022-06-12  0:42                             ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Richard Stallman
2022-06-12  1:39                               ` Tim Cross
2022-06-12  2:40                                 ` Org mode and Emacs T.V Raman
2022-06-12  1:45                               ` Po Lu
2022-06-12  2:15                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12  2:36                                   ` David Masterson
2022-06-12  3:06                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12  3:39                                       ` David Masterson
2022-06-12  4:43                                         ` Tim Cross
2022-06-12  5:08                                           ` Po Lu
2022-06-12  5:20                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12  5:27                                             ` Tim Cross
2022-06-12  5:53                                           ` David Masterson
2022-06-12  6:56                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 18:29                                               ` David Masterson
2022-06-14  5:09                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-19 23:48                                                   ` David Masterson
2022-06-20  0:03                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-20  0:24                                                       ` David Masterson
2022-06-12  3:28                                     ` Tim Cross
2022-06-12  2:50                                   ` Po Lu
2022-06-12  3:54                                     ` chad
2022-06-12  5:04                                       ` Po Lu
2022-06-12  7:02                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 22:38                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-12 22:38                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-12  6:21                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-12  6:57                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-06-08 13:22                       ` Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-08 14:23                         ` Org mode and Emacs Stefan Monnier
2022-06-08 15:08                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-12 22:38                           ` Richard Stallman

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