From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2023 21:14:21 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87y1u8b1gj.fsf@gmail.com> <8735cgot9x.fsf@gnu.org> <83leq7naql.fsf@gnu.org> <86o7v3ryan.fsf@gmail.com> <87wn9qfyv6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0zy63u3.fsf@localhost> <87h70ufwr1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j48eg9.fsf@localhost> <83ttsw2oeb.fsf@gnu.org> <87lee889ta.fsf@localhost> <87cyzcwtbc.fsf@bzg.fr> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20641"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Bastien Guerry Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 25 03:14:52 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qZLPV-00052M-Kw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2023 03:14:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZLP5-0005Nu-T1; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 21:14:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZLP4-0005Ku-2A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 21:14:22 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZLP3-0004ru-QY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 21:14:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=OTOMfZjZGng7VQeuVtoBnVA/YHElf69C+58z9a3FjWU=; b=hioJGEDOkwYf lJ/Ky+a8bibzXEnogc6KkJcZtnvSGRl2eFa/IxHfv8rZzxNMpAV2pIudt+0b0woDRNbZuh/SkasQS 23oRuMhA3mwlVgTISM6t8WH+MfixPKPVv+nRTRbriEzNOXmFf4oHvqWPbudvaRVnpInH3uMcrXDz+ r2treEDZfk+rfkuY6OwyDwuk5/i+wdJFuPgQgbVAekz/5/FXInhNlqT+QsKlr/wgucEvJFZK926dL XO5lHbAa1K9T1RpHQVx/nBcPFmZYCvvX5gYyRn5JNkCV4nECTP1Zj76MXgi4C7zlo8A221a7aeLQU p88C7waj8B0xThfoD5LVtw==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qZLP3-0003u7-Fw; Thu, 24 Aug 2023 21:14:21 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87cyzcwtbc.fsf@bzg.fr> (message from Bastien Guerry on Thu, 24 Aug 2023 13:52:55 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309186 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > FWIW, I think it is good to improve the .org format and Org tools > so that they are as good as .texi and Texinfo tools when it comes > to writing and publishing technical documentation. The term "as good as" may suggest, incorrectly, that this is a matter of comparing the two formats over some sense of _quality_. But that's not what this is about. The improvements I've proposed for Org format are a matter of _supporting the range of necessary constructs_. Texinfo supports them all because I implemented them all in Texinfo. As a result, you can express in Texinfo everything that has proved necessary (so far, at least) in GNU documentation. At present, that is not the case with Org format. There are situations in which Org format provides no way to express what needs to be said. > Let's simply try to improve Org in general, and see if more GNU > maintainers want to use it as their native documentat format (the > example of Org's documentation shows it's already possible.) We need to be careful here. What does the existence of Org mode documentation written in Org format actually show -- given that the format doesn't support all the constructs that are needed in general? It might show that the Org mode documentation doesn't make all the textual distinctions properly -- that it fails to follow our style guide. If so, then it is "possible" but only with flawed output. But not necesarily. Perhaps it shows that the Org mode documentation needs only a limited subset of those constructs, and those are all implemened in Ogr format. If so, that could mean that Org format is fine for the Org mode manual in prticular, but is not adequate for the whole range of our documentation. Either way, to make Org format adequate for that whole range of constructs, in all the output formats, will require working specifically towards that goal. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)