emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

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Hi,
following the discussion of the state of the GTK port, I gave it a chance
yesterday and have reverted to the X driver for my Linux boxes. The reason
for me to drop pgtk for the moment was that I had a 2 second delay between
clicking on a menu item and the menu appearing. Some people will tell me to
use the key bindings and disable the menu... I use a lot of snippets and
having them on the menu helps me apply my neurons to other tasks than
learning snippet triggers by heart ;-)

Don't know what to do when the first pure Wayland distributions appear.
Maybe other users are in the same situation and 'statement from the oracle'
may help us all...

-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

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Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Po Lu]

Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi, following the discussion of the state of the GTK port, I gave it a
> chance yesterday and have reverted to the X driver for my Linux
> boxes. The reason for me to drop pgtk for the moment was that I had a
> 2 second delay between clicking on a menu item and the menu
> appearing. Some people will tell me to use the key bindings and
> disable the menu... I use a lot of snippets and having them on the
> menu helps me apply my neurons to other tasks than learning snippet
> triggers by heart ;-)

I've heard of that bug before, but I cannot reproduce it.

What happens if you comment out this part of gtkutil.c, around line
3305?

      {
        pgtk_menu_set_in_use (true);
        set_frame_menubar (f, true);
      }


> Don't know what to do when the first pure Wayland distributions
> appear. Maybe other users are in the same situation and 'statement
> from the oracle' may help us all...

I think "Pure Wayland distributions" will probably not appear in the
near future, and we will see the situation remain as it is now, with
both X and Wayland sessions being offered.

Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

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Commenting those lines makes the yasnippets and mode menus disappear.

/PA

On Sun, 11 Sept 2022 at 07:38, Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hi, following the discussion of the state of the GTK port, I gave it a
> > chance yesterday and have reverted to the X driver for my Linux
> > boxes. The reason for me to drop pgtk for the moment was that I had a
> > 2 second delay between clicking on a menu item and the menu
> > appearing. Some people will tell me to use the key bindings and
> > disable the menu... I use a lot of snippets and having them on the
> > menu helps me apply my neurons to other tasks than learning snippet
> > triggers by heart ;-)
>
> I've heard of that bug before, but I cannot reproduce it.
>
> What happens if you comment out this part of gtkutil.c, around line
> 3305?
>
>       {
>         pgtk_menu_set_in_use (true);
>         set_frame_menubar (f, true);
>       }
>
>
> > Don't know what to do when the first pure Wayland distributions
> > appear. Maybe other users are in the same situation and 'statement
> > from the oracle' may help us all...
>
> I think "Pure Wayland distributions" will probably not appear in the
> near future, and we will see the situation remain as it is now, with
> both X and Wayland sessions being offered.
>


-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2322 bytes --]

Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Po Lu]

Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:

> Commenting those lines makes the yasnippets and mode menus disappear.

Yes, I know, but does it make the lag disappear as well?

Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Pankaj Jangid]

Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:

> following the discussion of the state of the GTK port, I gave it a chance
> yesterday and have reverted to the X driver for my Linux boxes. The reason
> for me to drop pgtk for the moment was that I had a 2 second delay between
> clicking on a menu item and the menu appearing. Some people will tell me to
> use the key bindings and disable the menu... I use a lot of snippets and
> having them on the menu helps me apply my neurons to other tasks than
> learning snippet triggers by heart ;-)
>
> Don't know what to do when the first pure Wayland distributions appear.
> Maybe other users are in the same situation and 'statement from the oracle'
> may help us all...

Debian 11 distro's default setting is to use Wayland. Is that what you
mean by pure Wayland?

And both the builds working fine on my system. I tried --with-pgtk and
without it.

Side note: Recently I have switched back to non PGTK build because
set-frame-width and set-frame-height has very erratic behaviour with
PGTK.

Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

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Pankaj> Debian 11 distro's default setting is to use Wayland. Is that what
you
mean by pure Wayland?

Yup... maybe. There is some confusion in what the implications of this
'default setting is to use Wayland' are. When calling upon the oracle, I
was expecting to steer a discussion which can end up as yet another Q(&A)
for the FAQ. After many years of Linux use, my understanding is still
shadowy on this... mainly because most of the articles I stumbled upon are
too high level. So having a 'this are the implications of Wayland for
Emacs' kind of _short_ document may be helpful.

/PA

On Sun, 11 Sept 2022 at 07:56, Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> wrote:

> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > following the discussion of the state of the GTK port, I gave it a chance
> > yesterday and have reverted to the X driver for my Linux boxes. The
> reason
> > for me to drop pgtk for the moment was that I had a 2 second delay
> between
> > clicking on a menu item and the menu appearing. Some people will tell me
> to
> > use the key bindings and disable the menu... I use a lot of snippets and
> > having them on the menu helps me apply my neurons to other tasks than
> > learning snippet triggers by heart ;-)
> >
> > Don't know what to do when the first pure Wayland distributions appear.
> > Maybe other users are in the same situation and 'statement from the
> oracle'
> > may help us all...
>
> Debian 11 distro's default setting is to use Wayland. Is that what you
> mean by pure Wayland?
>
> And both the builds working fine on my system. I tried --with-pgtk and
> without it.
>
> Side note: Recently I have switched back to non PGTK build because
> set-frame-width and set-frame-height has very erratic behaviour with
> PGTK.
>


-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2790 bytes --]

Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > Don't know what to do when the first pure Wayland distributions appear.

Could we write a statement describing the developing problems on behalf
of GNU Emacs development?  It might have some effect.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Po Lu]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> Could we write a statement describing the developing problems on behalf
> of GNU Emacs development?  It might have some effect.

Yes, I will be happy to do that once I get some more time.

Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > Could we write a statement describing the developing problems on behalf
  > > of GNU Emacs development?  It might have some effect.

  > Yes, I will be happy to do that once I get some more time.

Thank you, that will be very useful.


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

Re: emacs-29 --with-pgtk vs --with-x

[Payas Relekar]

Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:

> Pankaj> Debian 11 distro's default setting is to use Wayland. Is that what
> you
> mean by pure Wayland?
>
> Yup... maybe. There is some confusion in what the implications of this
> 'default setting is to use Wayland' are. When calling upon the oracle, I
> was expecting to steer a discussion which can end up as yet another Q(&A)
> for the FAQ. After many years of Linux use, my understanding is still
> shadowy on this... mainly because most of the articles I stumbled upon are
> too high level. So having a 'this are the implications of Wayland for
> Emacs' kind of _short_ document may be helpful.

For what its worth, distros offering Wayland as default session all
still have X11 session as an option at login. Even without it, all major
DEs will be supporting X11 via Xwayland for foreseeable future (a decade
or more). Even Gnome/GTK, the posterchild of breaking backwards
compatibility have support for X11 in GTK+4 (not yet released) and not
settled on whether to deprecate it for GTK+5 (way off into future).

As such, for any meaningful plans, even for Emacs lifetimes, it is not
worth thinking about *pure* Wayland distros just yet.

Thank you,
Payas

--