unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:53:37 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55D21191.8070202@cs.ucla.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150817121513.GA2634@acm.fritz.box>

Alan Mackenzie wrote:

> The main change here is that from now on, particularly if so-called
> Electric Quote mode [*] is used, we're going to end up with a chaotic
> mix of ascii quotes and curly quotes in our source code.

Although I also would prefer a simpler approach (one that consistently uses 
curved quotes), you've objected to that, necessitating a "chaotic" compromise.

> The fact that
> one "needs" such flaccid workarounds like EQM and the folding of quote
> characters with quote characters in (some of) the searching code should
> be taken as a hint just to stop and think hard.

For years Emacs has had significant problems in editing and searching and 
generating non-ASCII text.  Making Emacs better in this area will inevitably 
have teething problems, and we'll inevitably come up with worse solutions before 
coming up with better ones.  But we shouldn't just do nothing: these are real 
problems that need to be addressed.

Insisting that Emacs developers live and work in an ASCII ghetto has contributed 
to these problems, as it has led us to discount the importance of non-ASCII 
editing in the real world.  (I've been guilty of this as the next guy, by the 
way -- I'm not trying to cast aspersions on anybody in particular.)  It'll be 
helpful to break out of these old mindsets, and if regularly using a few 
non-ASCII characters in Emacs source will help us do that, then that'll be a 
good thing.




  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-08-17 16:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 212+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
     [not found] ` <E1ZR0NZ-0002SU-SM@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
2015-08-16 21:44   ` [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-16 22:53     ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-16 23:16       ` Drew Adams
2015-08-18  3:40       ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-18  5:20         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18  8:56           ` Bastien
2015-08-18 17:34             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 18:05               ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-18 18:32                 ` Chad Brown
2015-08-18 19:42                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 20:17                     ` Drew Adams
2015-08-24 20:20                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-25 11:35                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-25 22:11                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-25 22:16                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-26 18:51                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-26 22:23                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-08-26 22:39                                   ` David Kastrup
2015-08-26 22:53                                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-08-27  2:44                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-27  3:11                                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-08-27  4:43                                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2015-08-27  4:49                                           ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27 16:27                                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-27 16:27                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-27  3:10                                   ` Alexis
2015-08-27  4:48                                     ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27  4:52                                       ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27  4:49                                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-27  5:08                                       ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27  7:33                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-08-27  8:47                                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-27  8:56                                           ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-08-27 16:28                                           ` [TRUNCATED MESSAGE 2408 171455] " Richard Stallman
2015-08-27 17:44                                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-27 11:27                                       ` Alexis
2015-08-27 16:27                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-27 17:16                                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-28  1:41                                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-28  2:02                                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-28  7:28                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 21:17                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-28  8:12                                               ` Rasmus
2015-08-28  8:32                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-28  8:38                                                   ` Rasmus
2015-08-28  8:47                                                     ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-08-28  9:08                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28  9:36                                                         ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-08-28  9:05                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28  9:53                                                       ` Rasmus
2015-08-28 10:05                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 10:12                                                           ` Rasmus
2015-08-28 12:45                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 15:04                                                               ` Rasmus
2015-08-28 15:31                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28  9:01                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 16:40                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-28 19:13                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-29 14:50                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-29 16:15                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-30  2:00                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-30 14:41                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-30 15:49                                                             ` David Kastrup
2015-08-31  1:33                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-31 14:29                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-31 17:36                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-31 17:52                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-01  3:33                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-28 21:20                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-28  7:21                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-18 20:53                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-18 21:43                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19  1:09                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19 18:14                     ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-20 13:56                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-21  7:51                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-21 12:43                         ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-21 12:52                           ` David Kastrup
2015-08-22 17:30                             ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-21 13:58                         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2015-08-21 14:39                           ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-08-19  1:22                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19  3:52                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 18:15                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 18:52                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-20 16:54                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-21  0:48                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-21  1:35                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 20:47               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19  1:24           ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19  4:52             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-24 20:20               ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-17  3:44     ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 11:09       ` Bastien Guerry
2015-08-17 16:39         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 16:57           ` Bastien
2015-08-17 17:25             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 17:47               ` Bastien
2015-08-17 11:33       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-17 16:41         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 11:47       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-17 16:42         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 18:11           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-17 18:38             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 18:50               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-17 23:25                 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-08-17 23:55                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 11:31                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19  6:28                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 13:30                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19 22:21                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19 22:38                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-20 13:55                           ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-21 23:47                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-22  0:19                               ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-22 12:45                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-24 17:33                                   ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-25  7:11                                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-25 11:38                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-25 18:03                                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-26  1:25                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2015-08-26  2:51                                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-20 16:56                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-20 19:32                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-22 16:31                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-22 18:48                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-22 21:09                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-22 22:43                                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-22 23:08                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-22 23:45                                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-23  8:11                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-23  9:48                                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-23 10:45                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-23 10:48                                               ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-24  5:47                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-23  4:30                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-23  8:13                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-24  0:08                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-24  1:10                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-24 20:22                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-24 20:20                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-24 22:25                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-25 22:10                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-26  6:13                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 12:15       ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-17 14:40         ` Drew Adams
2015-08-17 16:53           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-17 19:06             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-17 19:34               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-17 16:53         ` Paul Eggert [this message]
2015-08-17 17:35           ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18  2:55             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 10:39               ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 16:45                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 17:17                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 19:25                     ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 20:42                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 21:40                         ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-18 22:44                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-18 23:11                             ` Bastien
2015-08-18 23:41                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19  0:29                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-19  0:38                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-19 18:15                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 18:40                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-20 13:37                               ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-08-20 20:23                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-21  7:41                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-21 15:27                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-22 17:29                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19  6:31                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19  6:58                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-19  9:09                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19  9:13                                   ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-19 14:05                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19 14:47                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-19 16:10                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-20 23:46                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-19 14:16                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-19 16:03                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-22 17:27                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-23  0:04                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-24  0:05                                       ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 18:16                               ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-21  7:17                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-22 17:27                                   ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-19 18:14                             ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-18 23:15                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-19  4:24                             ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-19  7:37                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-19 10:10                               ` Nicolas Richard
2015-08-19 14:26                                 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-08-19 21:53                                 ` Paul Eggert
2015-08-20  7:20                                   ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-20 13:31                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-18 15:09             ` Yuri Khan
2015-08-18 15:24               ` Andreas Schwab
2015-08-18 15:48                 ` Yuri Khan
2015-08-18 15:48               ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-18 17:08                 ` Yuri Khan
2015-08-18 18:12                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-19  4:45                     ` Yuri Khan
2015-08-19 14:14                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-19  5:19                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19 14:15                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-19 16:05                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-19  1:19             ` Richard Stallman
2015-08-17 18:22           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-18  3:55             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-08-18 10:51               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-08-18 12:31               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-08-18  3:44           ` Richard Stallman

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=55D21191.8070202@cs.ucla.edu \
    --to=eggert@cs.ucla.edu \
    --cc=acm@muc.de \
    --cc=dgutov@yandex.ru \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).