From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:53:37 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <55D21191.8070202@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20150816160149.9416.80132@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <55D15899.2070105@cs.ucla.edu> <20150817121513.GA2634@acm.fritz.box> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439830467 12460 80.91.229.3 (17 Aug 2015 16:54:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:54:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 17 18:54:16 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRNfr-0007m4-RT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:54:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60072 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRNfr-0007Wa-AU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:54:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34411) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRNfM-0007SD-39 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:53:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRNfI-0007hy-0p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:53:43 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:37426) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRNfH-0007hk-RB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:53:39 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F1E160D7A; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id eAlkp7281zlP; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209341605AF; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:53:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id UkRbN87nyeG9; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (pool-100-32-155-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [100.32.155.148]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 001BF160D78; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:53:37 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 In-Reply-To: <20150817121513.GA2634@acm.fritz.box> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188852 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie wrote: > The main change here is that from now on, particularly if so-called > Electric Quote mode [*] is used, we're going to end up with a chaotic > mix of ascii quotes and curly quotes in our source code. Although I also would prefer a simpler approach (one that consistently uses curved quotes), you've objected to that, necessitating a "chaotic" compromise. > The fact that > one "needs" such flaccid workarounds like EQM and the folding of quote > characters with quote characters in (some of) the searching code should > be taken as a hint just to stop and think hard. For years Emacs has had significant problems in editing and searching and generating non-ASCII text. Making Emacs better in this area will inevitably have teething problems, and we'll inevitably come up with worse solutions before coming up with better ones. But we shouldn't just do nothing: these are real problems that need to be addressed. Insisting that Emacs developers live and work in an ASCII ghetto has contributed to these problems, as it has led us to discount the importance of non-ASCII editing in the real world. (I've been guilty of this as the next guy, by the way -- I'm not trying to cast aspersions on anybody in particular.) It'll be helpful to break out of these old mindsets, and if regularly using a few non-ASCII characters in Emacs source will help us do that, then that'll be a good thing.