From: Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org>
Cc: jas@extundo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: eight-bit char handling in emacs-unicode
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:41:47 +0900 (JST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200311210041.JAA18324@etlken.m17n.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvptfp139w.fsf-monnier+emacs/devel@vor.iro.umontreal.ca> (message from Stefan Monnier on 18 Nov 2003 22:05:39 -0500)
In article <jwvptfp139w.fsf-monnier+emacs/devel@vor.iro.umontreal.ca>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:
>> I see. Apart from the design itself, I agree that it's difficult to
>> introduce a new type. But, when I discussed with Richard about the
>> Character type object a few year ago, he was not that negative provided
>> that it gives sure improvement.
> Sounds about right to me: we have one free tag that we could use for chars
Yes, and as that is the last free tag, I still hesitate to
consume it for the Character object.
>> Then, we can't use make-string-unibyte for the current case
>> because, in emacs-unicode, (concat '(?a 192)) returns a
>> multibyte string whose second element is A-grave, not an
>> eight-bit-char. Am I missing something?
> Well, obviously we need to make it accept this case (i.e. accept both the
> latin-1 192 and the eight-bit-char 192).
Then, I see your intention. But, isn't the semantics of
such a function very weird?
>>> To do what your string-make-unibyte does you should use
>>> `encode-coding-string' where the coding system is passed explicitly.
>> Those are conceptually different things (I remember the
>> similar discussion we had a while ago).
>> encode-coding-string does:
>> char-sequence --CCS-set--> (CCS/codepoint-pair)-sequence
>> --CES--> encoded-byte-sequence
>> string-make-unibyte does:
>> char-sequence --CCS--> code-point-sequence
>> --concat--> code-point-sequence
>> These two yield the same result only when CCS support all
>> chars in "char-sequence" and CES is stateless
>> (e.g. iso-latin-1) and .
> You lost me here (I'm a poor soul whose doesn't know much outside of the
> latin-1 world).
CCS: Coded Character Set
CES: Character Encoding Scheme
coding-system of Emacs: Set of CCSs and CES.
iso-latin-1: CCSs are ascii and latin-iso8859-1,
CES is 8-bit version of ISO-2022
iso-2022-jp: CCSs are ascii, japanese-jisx0208, ...
CES is 7-bit version of ISO-2022
> I thought that string-make-unibyte only behaves meaningfully for
> "normal 8bit coding-systems" such as latin-1.
Yes, but it doesn't mean it is conceptually the same as
encode-coding-string. The result of string-make-unibyte
should still be regarded as a sequence of character, but the
result of encode-coding-string is a sequence of byte.
Here exists an ambiguity of a unibyte string.
The number 192 can be regarded as:
(1) just a number, a byte
(2) a code point of some character set.
(3) a character code
A unibyte string can contain (1) and (2) without
distinguishing them, but a multibyte string can contain (1)
and (3) while distinguishing them.
---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-11-21 0:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2003-11-12 16:11 BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-13 1:53 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Kenichi Handa
2003-11-13 4:14 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-13 5:34 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Kenichi Handa
2003-11-13 5:50 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-13 4:49 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-13 6:10 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Kenichi Handa
2003-11-13 6:51 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-13 9:01 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Kenichi Handa
2003-11-13 13:29 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Oliver Scholz
2003-11-13 23:40 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Kenichi Handa
2003-11-14 13:35 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Oliver Scholz
2003-11-13 16:34 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-14 0:47 ` eight-bit char handling in emacs-unicode Kenichi Handa
2003-11-14 13:25 ` Oliver Scholz
2003-11-15 1:09 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-15 10:26 ` Oliver Scholz
2003-11-15 21:47 ` Simon Josefsson
2003-11-15 3:04 ` Simon Josefsson
2003-11-16 15:03 ` Alex Schroeder
2003-11-17 21:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-18 7:33 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-18 17:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-19 0:06 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-19 3:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-19 10:46 ` Juri Linkov
2003-11-19 13:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-20 23:41 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-21 0:41 ` Kenichi Handa [this message]
2003-11-21 5:27 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-21 6:27 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-21 14:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-22 1:25 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-22 23:53 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-23 7:30 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-23 23:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-25 1:07 ` Kenichi Handa
[not found] ` <jwvfzgcsbuv.fsf-monnier+emacs/devel@vor.iro.umontreal.ca>
2003-11-26 0:07 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-26 14:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-27 1:34 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-11-27 14:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-01 0:43 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-12-01 16:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-12-02 13:07 ` Kenichi Handa
2003-12-02 16:06 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-11-25 4:28 ` Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <jwv7k1gtswz.fsf-monnier+emacs/devel@vor.iro.umontreal.ca>
2003-12-09 21:49 ` Richard Stallman
2003-11-15 22:32 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-17 1:12 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Kenichi Handa
2003-11-17 2:06 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-17 5:45 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Eli Zaretskii
2003-11-17 7:43 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-18 7:01 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Richard Stallman
2003-11-18 8:56 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-19 5:15 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Richard Stallman
2003-11-20 5:48 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
2003-11-20 5:56 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Eli Zaretskii
2003-11-20 6:20 ` BIG5-HKSCS? Simon Josefsson
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