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From: Michal Nazarewicz <mina86@mina86.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: 24603@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#24603: [PATCHv5 08/11] Implement rules for title-casing Dutch ij ‘letter’ (bug#24603)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 22:30:52 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <xa1ta88khptf.fsf@mina86.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83a88sdudb.fsf@gnu.org>

On Sat, Mar 11 2017, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Michal Nazarewicz <mina86@mina86.com>
>> Date: Thu,  9 Mar 2017 22:51:47 +0100
>> 
>> +    /* In Dutch, ‘ij’ is a digraph and when capitalised the whole thing is upper
>> +       cased.  Unicode has ‘ij’ and ‘IJ’ (with proper casing mappings) but they
>> +       aren’t always used so we cannot/should not rely on them.
>> +
>> +       Note that rule for capitalising ‘ij’ as a single letter is not present in
>> +       Unicode 9.0’s SpecialCasing.txt.  On the flip side, Firefox implements
>> +       this as well so we’re not completely alone.
>
> If this is not mandated by Unicode 9.0 (and not by the latest draft of
> 10.0, AFAICS), shouldn't we have a user option for this, by default
> off?

I don’t really see why.

If the goal is to implement Unicode then ‘ij’ handling should not be
implemented at all and Unicode-mandated behaviour should not be
configurable, but implementing Unicode is a mean, not a goal in itself.

Rather, the goal is to properly case strings and while Unicode is
helpful in that it’s not the whole story.

And if user are allowed to disable ‘ij’ handling, they should also be
allowed to disable Turkish ‘i’ handling.

>> +       There are words where ‘ij’ are two separate letters (such as bijectie or
>> +       bijoux) in which case the capitalisation rules do not apply.  I (mina86)
>> +       have googled this a little and couldn’t find a Dutch word which beings
>> +       with ‘ij’ that is not a digraph so we should be in the clear since we
>> +       only care about the initial. */
>
> I'm not sure I get this right: does this mean that writing in English
> (or any other non-Dutch language) in a Dutch locale will automatically
> capitalize "ij" to "IJ", just because the default value of
> buffer-language is "nl_NL" or somesuch, and no specific language was
> set for the buffer?  Wouldn't that surprise users?

Yes it does.  And yes it would.

This is currently the biggest blocker/concern for all the patches past
07/11 and I’m still wondering what would be the best solution.

I thought about having a ‘language’ string property so that programming
major modes would mark everything outside of comments as a ‘nil’
language.  This would require support from multiple major modes and
likely complicate them.¹

Or perhaps have off-by-default ‘special-casing-mode’ which enables
language-dependent casing rules.  Similar effect could be accomplished
by replacing the ‘buffer-language’ with nil-by-default ‘casing-locale’
variable applicable only to casing, but I would miss ‘buffer-language’
since I believe it might get used for other things.

¹ Having string property could still be an option in the future of
  course and it might allow fancy things like: <p lang=en>Iceland’s name
  in Dutch is <span lang=nl>Ijsland</span></p>.

-- 
Best regards
ミハウ “𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓪86” ナザレヴイツ
«If at first you don’t succeed, give up skydiving»





  reply	other threads:[~2017-03-16 21:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-10-04  1:05 bug#24603: [RFC 00/18] Improvement to casing Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10 ` bug#24603: [RFC 01/18] Add tests for casefiddle.c Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 02/18] Generate upcase and downcase tables from Unicode data Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  7:27     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-04 14:54       ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04 15:06         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-04 16:57           ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04 17:27             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-04 17:44               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-06 20:29                 ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-07  6:52                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 03/18] Don’t assume character can be either upper- or lower-case when casing Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 04/18] Split casify_object into multiple functions Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 05/18] Introduce case_character function Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 06/18] Add support for title-casing letters Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 07/18] Split up casify_region function Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  7:17     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-18  2:27       ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 08/18] Support casing characters which map into multiple code points Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  7:38     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-06 21:40       ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-07  7:46         ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-01-28 23:48           ` Michal Nazarewicz
2017-02-10  9:12             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 09/18] Implement special sigma casing rule Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  7:22     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 10/18] Implement Turkic dotless and dotted i handling when casing strings Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  7:12     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 11/18] Implement casing rules for Lithuanian Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 12/18] Implement rules for title-casing Dutch ij ‘letter’ Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 13/18] Add some tricky Unicode characters to regex test Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 14/18] Factor out character category lookup to separate function Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 15/18] Base lower- and upper-case tests on Unicode properties Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  6:54     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 16/18] Refactor character class checking; optimise ASCII case Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  7:48     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-17 13:22       ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-11-06 19:26       ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-11-06 19:44         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-20 14:32           ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-12-20 16:39             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-22 14:02               ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 17/18] Optimise character class matching in regexes Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-04  1:10   ` bug#24603: [RFC 18/18] Fix case-fold-search character class matching Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-17 22:03 ` bug#24603: [PATCH 0/3] Case table updates Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-17 22:03   ` bug#24603: [PATCH 1/3] Add tests for casefiddle.c Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-17 22:03   ` bug#24603: [PATCH 2/3] Generate upcase and downcase tables from Unicode data Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-17 22:03   ` bug#24603: [PATCH 3/3] Don’t generate ‘X maps to X’ entries in case tables Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-18  6:36   ` bug#24603: [PATCH 0/3] Case table updates Eli Zaretskii
2016-10-24 15:11     ` Michal Nazarewicz
2016-10-24 15:33       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-09 21:51 ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 00/11] Casing improvements Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 01/11] Split casify_object into multiple functions Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-10  9:00     ` Andreas Schwab
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 02/11] Introduce case_character function Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 03/11] Add support for title-casing letters (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-11  9:03     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 04/11] Split up casify_region function (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 05/11] Support casing characters which map into multiple code points (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-11  9:14     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-21  2:09       ` Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 06/11] Implement special sigma casing rule (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 07/11] Introduce ‘buffer-language’ buffer-locar variable Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-11  9:29     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 08/11] Implement rules for title-casing Dutch ij ‘letter’ (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-11  9:40     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-16 21:30       ` Michal Nazarewicz [this message]
2017-03-17 13:43         ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 09/11] Implement Turkic dotless and dotted i casing rules (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 10/11] Implement casing rules for Lithuanian (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-09 21:51   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 11/11] Implement Irish casing rules (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-11  9:44     ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-16 22:16       ` Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-17  8:20         ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-11 10:00   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv5 00/11] Casing improvements Eli Zaretskii
2017-03-21  1:27   ` bug#24603: [PATCHv6 0/6] Casing improvements, language-independent part Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-21  1:27     ` bug#24603: [PATCHv6 1/6] Split casify_object into multiple functions Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-21  1:27     ` bug#24603: [PATCHv6 2/6] Introduce case_character function Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-21  1:27     ` bug#24603: [PATCHv6 3/6] Add support for title-casing letters (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-21  1:27     ` bug#24603: [PATCHv6 4/6] Split up casify_region function (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-21  1:27     ` bug#24603: [PATCHv6 5/6] Support casing characters which map into multiple code points (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz
2017-03-22 16:06       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-04-03  9:01         ` Michal Nazarewicz
2017-04-03 14:52           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-25  0:09           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-06-25  0:29             ` Michał Nazarewicz
2020-08-11 13:46               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-05-10 11:51                 ` bug#24603: [RFC 00/18] Improvement to casing Lars Ingebrigtsen
2017-03-21  1:27     ` bug#24603: [PATCHv6 6/6] Implement special sigma casing rule (bug#24603) Michal Nazarewicz

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