unofficial mirror of bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
Cc: grfz@gmx.de, 16292@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `'
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:29:02 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <52C1C456.2080004@cs.ucla.edu>

> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:07:02 -0800
> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
> CC: 16292@debbugs.gnu.org, grfz@gmx.de
> 
> Latin-1 markup (which you're advocating) is not legible in all locales.

Yes, but Latin-1 characters are only used in a handful of words (names
of people), so using Latin-1 doesn't hamper users' ability to read the
manual in any way, because the quote characters are not affected.
Only the UTF-8 encoding also affects the quote characters, which are
used a lot in Info.

So Latin-1 is a much lesser evil.

> It's not just the few files that specify "@documentencoding UTF-8".
> It's several other files that contain UTF-8 characters, files like
> dbus.texi.  These files are being mishandled now, because of the revert,
> because makeinfo isn't being told what their encoding is.  And the
> first of these files that I found, namely dbus.texi, is specifically
> talking about multibyte characters in its example, so converting it
> to Latin-1 would destroy the point of that example.

The job is not yet finished, so naturally there are problems we need
to solve.  I've just reverted the situation back to where it was
before, to the point where we should discuss the possible solutions
and choose the best one.

> I sympathize with the goal of producing .info files portable to
> all locales, but this revert is not solving that problem and it is
> making matters significantly worse in other areas.

The problem of quotes _is_ solved, in most of the Info files.  Again,
I'm not claiming we should release the files in their present shape.
There's still work to be done, the question is what to do.

> The other change you're advocating (converting to Latin-1) would be
> worse yet.

I don't see why it would be worse, please elaborate.

> Instead, I suggest undoing the revert, and adding something to
> postprocess the info files, to produce ASCII-only info files.
> These could be used in locales that don't grok UTF-8.  Doing
> this will avoid screwing up the documentation in .html and .pdf
> formats.  I'll volunteer to write that.

Are you suggesting to produce 2 separate sets of Info files?  That
could work, although it will be unusual (I don't think any other
project does that).  But if we go that way, there's no need to
postprocess anything, just run makeinfo again with --disable-encoding
and direct the output to a different place.

If you suggest to have a single set of Info files, then I don't
understand the proposal, or how it would help.





  reply	other threads:[~2013-12-30 19:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-12-29 22:08 bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' Gregor Zattler
2013-12-30  1:14 ` Glenn Morris
2013-12-30  3:07   ` Drew Adams
2013-12-30  3:26     ` Glenn Morris
2013-12-30  3:23 ` Paul Eggert
2013-12-30  4:10   ` Drew Adams
2013-12-30 17:24   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-30 17:33     ` Drew Adams
2013-12-30 18:03       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-30 19:07     ` Paul Eggert
2013-12-30 19:29       ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2013-12-30 19:46         ` Andreas Schwab
2013-12-30 20:08           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-30 20:35             ` Andreas Schwab
2013-12-31  8:03               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-31  5:51           ` Paul Eggert
2013-12-31  5:58         ` Paul Eggert
2013-12-31  8:27           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-02  2:05             ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-02  3:42               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-02  4:50                 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-02 15:51                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-02 19:28                     ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-02 20:56                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-03  0:44                         ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-03  8:03                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-03 17:26                             ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-03 20:18                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-03 20:48                                 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-03 21:12                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-03 21:52                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04  0:07                                   ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04  0:40                                     ` Drew Adams
2014-01-04  0:49                                       ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04  7:27                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04  5:18                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04  7:45                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                         ` <<jwvtxdjlcdq.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 18:01                                         ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 20:11                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                           ` <<83mwjbv75f.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 20:24                                             ` Drew Adams
2014-01-04 20:42                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 20:30                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04 20:45                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                             ` <<jwv38l3lagj.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 20:53                                             ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 21:08                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 23:29                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05  3:47                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-05  5:23                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 16:30                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 21:11                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-05  3:43                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                 ` <<jwvsit3owo1.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
2014-01-05  4:55                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-05 16:19                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                     ` <<52C9BA68.7050703@cs.ucla.edu>
2014-01-05 20:02                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 20:06                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                         ` <<52C9BCBF.7050904@cs.ucla.edu>
2014-01-05 20:12                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 20:19                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                             ` <<52C9E53D.8070106@cs.ucla.edu>
2014-01-05 23:05                                                             ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-06  3:54                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                                 ` <<52CA3FB9.30509@cs.ucla.edu>
2014-01-06  4:39                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06  5:31                                                                 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-06 16:15                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-07  1:15                                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-07  3:56                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                                     ` <<52CB5517.4030502@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                                                                       ` <<83lhyssawf.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                                                         ` <da0ad1dc-90f0-4c6d-9325-7783b2cd5bff@de>
2014-05-02 18:11                                                                         ` Drew Adams
2014-05-02 18:22                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-05-02 19:07                                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 19:19                                                                             ` Glenn Morris
2014-05-02 19:28                                                                               ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 21:10                                                                                 ` Glenn Morris
2014-05-02 21:25                                                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 19:33                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2014-05-02 20:36                                                                               ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 20:53                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-02 21:14                                                                                   ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 21:28                                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2014-05-02 21:47                                                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-03  6:02                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-05-03  6:56                                                                                 ` Paul Eggert
     [not found]                                                                         ` <<da0ad1dc-90f0-4c6d-9325-7783b2cd5bff@default>
     [not found]                                                                           ` <<83eh0c11mt.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-05-02 19:20                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2014-05-03  9:27                                                                               ` Juri Linkov
2014-05-03 13:50                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-03 15:51                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2014-05-07 20:21                                                                                     ` Juri Linkov
2014-05-07 20:41                                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2014-01-04 17:50                                       ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 20:08                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 20:53                                           ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 21:10                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 23:35                                               ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05  3:49                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 20:32                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04  7:41                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04  7:38                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-02  4:19     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-02  4:48       ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-02 15:28         ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-05-03  0:55 ` Glenn Morris
     [not found] <<20131229220810.GF7972@boo.workgroup>
     [not found] ` <<52C0E734.4090403@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]   ` <<83sita1cbw.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]     ` <<52C1C456.2080004@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]       ` <<83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]         ` <<52C25D07.80808@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]           ` <<8338l91l2t.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <<52C4C95C.2010905@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]               ` <<837gajyrq1.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                 ` <<52C4F008.5060003@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                   ` <<83zjnextyg.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                     ` <<52C5BDD1.2050009@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                       ` <<83ppoaxfu6.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                         ` <<52C607DA.3090009@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                           ` <<83fvp5xzk0.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                             ` <<52C6F2C5.10505@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                               ` <<83mwjcx1i9.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                 ` <<jwveh4ospsd.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                   ` <<52C750C4.6040006@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                                     ` <<b62a40e1-c1d8-4e30-a04c-f7d311a915b3@default>
     [not found]                                       ` <<838uuww6j7.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 15:21                                         ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                                     ` <<"<8338l4w5pj.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                       ` <<7b8ccac4-1887-406c-bed8-6b58a761897a@default>
     [not found]                                         ` <<83iotzv5q0.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 21:07                                           ` Drew Adams
2014-01-04 23:05                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04 23:45                                             ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05  6:13                                               ` Drew Adams
2014-01-05  3:41                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found] <20131229220810.GF7972"@boo.workgroup>
     [not found] ` <83sita1cbw.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <83fvpa16kh.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]     ` <8338l91l2t.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <837gajyrq1.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]         ` <83zjnextyg.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <83ppoaxfu6.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <83fvp5xzk0.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found] <"<20131229220810.GF7972"@boo.workgroup>
     [not found] ` <"<83sita1cbw.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <"<83fvpa16kh.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]     ` <"<8338l91l2t.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <"<837gajyrq1.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]         ` <"<83zjnextyg.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <"<83ppoaxfu6.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <"<83fvp5xzk0.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found] <<"<20131229220810.GF7972"@boo.workgroup>
     [not found] ` <<"<83sita1cbw.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <<"<83fvpa16kh.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]     ` <<"<8338l91l2t.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <<"<837gajyrq1.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]         ` <<"<83zjnextyg.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <<"<83ppoaxfu6.fsf"@gnu.org>
     [not found]             ` <<"<83fvp5xzk0.fsf"@gnu.org>

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org \
    --to=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=16292@debbugs.gnu.org \
    --cc=eggert@cs.ucla.edu \
    --cc=grfz@gmx.de \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).