From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>,
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: grfz@gmx.de, 16292@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `'
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 17:51:51 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83zjnextyg.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <52C4F008.5060003@cs.ucla.edu>
> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 20:50:16 -0800
> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
> CC: 16292@debbugs.gnu.org, grfz@gmx.de
>
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Thanks, but this should be the default, or at least should be used
> > when producing the release tarball.
>
> No, the point is that the release tarball contains UTF-8
> info files, and that these are transformed to ASCII for installations
> that prefer ASCII info files.
But does "make install" really cut that? How many end users on a
typical Posix platform will build and install their own Emacs? I
thought the majority installs from ready-to-run packages nowadays, and
in that case "make install" was already run by someone else, with who
knows what configure-time options.
> cp-ascii's UTF8-to-ASCII transformation loses information; we can't
> ship ASCII info files in the tarball and then transform those to the
> UTF-8 originals.
That's because your Sed script goes too far, IMO: it can be limited to
editing only the markup and the => arrows, and leave the other
non-ASCII characters intact. Then there will be no information loss,
just a different (some will say less pretty) display of that
information.
> An ASCII default would have been better years ago, but these days
> UTF-8 is the typical default encoding in GNUish distributions and
> most users will be better off if UTF-8 is the default.
I agree, when it comes to non-ASCII text. But I see no reason for
such a strong preference when it comes to the Info markup. I find
that a purely aesthetic consideration with no real functionality
behind it. (It can even hurt: e.g., on one of my machines, the
Unicode quotes look pale and not so pretty at all, I guess the font
I'm using is not the best one for those characters.)
To summarize, I see the following possible ways to solve this issue:
1) Do nothing. This is a temporary measure at best and doesn't make
much sense; I mention it here only for completeness. Sooner or
later we will have to do something.
2) Use "@documentencoding ISO-8859-1" in any manual that needs to
include non-ASCII characters. This is what we did a year ago,
although a couple of manuals had utf-8 in them; they can all be
converted to use Latin-1. The advantage is that this leaves the
markup intact; the disadvantage is that most locales will not
display the non-ASCII text correctly these days.
3) Install Paul's script, which will be run at "make install" time,
either by default, or given a configure time option. (We could
also make this "make install" time option.) If we go this way,
I think we should leave Unicode characters that are not Info
markup alone, and not edit them.
4) Use --disable-encoding switch to makeinfo, again either by
default or given some non-default option. This avoids the need
for a separate Sed script, but has a complication: makeinfo 4.13,
which I presume is still in use and which we want to support, did
not emit the 'coding' cookie when --disable-encoding was
specified. OTOH, makeinfo 4.13 didn't emit Unicode quotes when
--enable-encoding was specified. So if we go this way, we will
need to detect the makeinfo version and use the right switch.
5) Add a feature to info.el that will set up a display table for
Info buffers, and use that display table to display quotes and
arrows on TTYs that don't support UTF-8. Then Paul's changes to
use "@documentencoding utf-8" everywhere can be re-installed with
no additional changes. However, unlike all the other
alternatives, this one solves the problem only for the Emacs Info
reader, and leaves the problem with the stand-alone Info reader
to the Texinfo maintainers.
If someone has other suggestions, please raise them. Otherwise, I
guess it's decision time.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-01-02 15:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-12-29 22:08 bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' Gregor Zattler
2013-12-30 1:14 ` Glenn Morris
2013-12-30 3:07 ` Drew Adams
2013-12-30 3:26 ` Glenn Morris
2013-12-30 3:23 ` Paul Eggert
2013-12-30 4:10 ` Drew Adams
2013-12-30 17:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-30 17:33 ` Drew Adams
2013-12-30 18:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-30 19:07 ` Paul Eggert
2013-12-30 19:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-30 19:46 ` Andreas Schwab
2013-12-30 20:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-30 20:35 ` Andreas Schwab
2013-12-31 8:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-31 5:51 ` Paul Eggert
2013-12-31 5:58 ` Paul Eggert
2013-12-31 8:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-02 2:05 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-02 3:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-02 4:50 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-02 15:51 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2014-01-02 19:28 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-02 20:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-03 0:44 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-03 8:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-03 17:26 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-03 20:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-03 20:48 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-03 21:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-03 21:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04 0:07 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 0:40 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-04 0:49 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 7:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 5:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04 7:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<jwvtxdjlcdq.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 18:01 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 20:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<83mwjbv75f.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 20:24 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-04 20:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 20:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04 20:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<jwv38l3lagj.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 20:53 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 21:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 23:29 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 3:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-05 5:23 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 16:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 21:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-05 3:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<jwvsit3owo1.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
2014-01-05 4:55 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-05 16:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<52C9BA68.7050703@cs.ucla.edu>
2014-01-05 20:02 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 20:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<52C9BCBF.7050904@cs.ucla.edu>
2014-01-05 20:12 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 20:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<52C9E53D.8070106@cs.ucla.edu>
2014-01-05 23:05 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-06 3:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<52CA3FB9.30509@cs.ucla.edu>
2014-01-06 4:39 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-06 5:31 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-06 16:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-07 1:15 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-07 3:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<52CB5517.4030502@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<83lhyssawf.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <da0ad1dc-90f0-4c6d-9325-7783b2cd5bff@de>
2014-05-02 18:11 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-02 18:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-05-02 19:07 ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 19:19 ` Glenn Morris
2014-05-02 19:28 ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 21:10 ` Glenn Morris
2014-05-02 21:25 ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 19:33 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-02 20:36 ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 20:53 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-02 21:14 ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-02 21:28 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-02 21:47 ` Paul Eggert
2014-05-03 6:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-05-03 6:56 ` Paul Eggert
[not found] ` <<da0ad1dc-90f0-4c6d-9325-7783b2cd5bff@default>
[not found] ` <<83eh0c11mt.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-05-02 19:20 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-03 9:27 ` Juri Linkov
2014-05-03 13:50 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-03 15:51 ` Drew Adams
2014-05-07 20:21 ` Juri Linkov
2014-05-07 20:41 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-04 17:50 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 20:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 20:53 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-04 21:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 23:35 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 3:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 20:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04 7:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-04 7:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-02 4:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-02 4:48 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-02 15:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-05-03 0:55 ` Glenn Morris
[not found] <<20131229220810.GF7972@boo.workgroup>
[not found] ` <<52C0E734.4090403@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<83sita1cbw.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<52C1C456.2080004@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<52C25D07.80808@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<8338l91l2t.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<52C4C95C.2010905@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<837gajyrq1.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<52C4F008.5060003@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<83zjnextyg.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<52C5BDD1.2050009@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<83ppoaxfu6.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<52C607DA.3090009@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<83fvp5xzk0.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<52C6F2C5.10505@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<83mwjcx1i9.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<jwveh4ospsd.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<52C750C4.6040006@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <<b62a40e1-c1d8-4e30-a04c-f7d311a915b3@default>
[not found] ` <<838uuww6j7.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 15:21 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <<"<8338l4w5pj.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<7b8ccac4-1887-406c-bed8-6b58a761897a@default>
[not found] ` <<83iotzv5q0.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-01-04 21:07 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-04 23:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-04 23:45 ` Paul Eggert
2014-01-05 6:13 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-05 3:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] <<"<20131229220810.GF7972"@boo.workgroup>
[not found] ` <<"<83sita1cbw.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<"<83fvpa16kh.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<"<8338l91l2t.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<"<837gajyrq1.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<"<83zjnextyg.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<"<83ppoaxfu6.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<"<83fvp5xzk0.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] <20131229220810.GF7972"@boo.workgroup>
[not found] ` <83sita1cbw.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <83fvpa16kh.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <8338l91l2t.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <837gajyrq1.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <83zjnextyg.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <83ppoaxfu6.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <83fvp5xzk0.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] <"<20131229220810.GF7972"@boo.workgroup>
[not found] ` <"<83sita1cbw.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <"<83fvpa16kh.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <"<8338l91l2t.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <"<837gajyrq1.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <"<83zjnextyg.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <"<83ppoaxfu6.fsf"@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <"<83fvp5xzk0.fsf"@gnu.org>
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