From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:29:02 +0200 Message-ID: <83fvpa16kh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20131229220810.GF7972@boo.workgroup> <52C0E734.4090403@cs.ucla.edu> <83sita1cbw.fsf@gnu.org> <52C1C456.2080004@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388431812 6865 80.91.229.3 (30 Dec 2013 19:30:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:30:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: grfz@gmx.de, 16292@debbugs.gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 30 20:30:18 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VxiXY-0003x2-VR for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:30:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59576 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxiXY-0007MQ-Gc for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:30:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58959) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxiXQ-0007Ka-GJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:30:13 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxiXL-0004Ss-NW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:30:08 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:39094) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxiXL-0004SJ-KV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:30:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VxiXK-0006FN-HZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:30:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16292.138843176723943 (code B ref 16292); Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:30:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2013 19:29:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53113 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VxiWk-0006E6-Is for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:29:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:41074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VxiWh-0006Dk-0E for 16292@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 14:29:24 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MYM00M00W86QG00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 16292@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:29:12 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MYM00M1XWSOWP00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 21:29:12 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <52C1C456.2080004@cs.ucla.edu> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:82765 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:07:02 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: 16292@debbugs.gnu.org, grfz@gmx.de > > Latin-1 markup (which you're advocating) is not legible in all locales. Yes, but Latin-1 characters are only used in a handful of words (names of people), so using Latin-1 doesn't hamper users' ability to read the manual in any way, because the quote characters are not affected. Only the UTF-8 encoding also affects the quote characters, which are used a lot in Info. So Latin-1 is a much lesser evil. > It's not just the few files that specify "@documentencoding UTF-8". > It's several other files that contain UTF-8 characters, files like > dbus.texi. These files are being mishandled now, because of the revert, > because makeinfo isn't being told what their encoding is. And the > first of these files that I found, namely dbus.texi, is specifically > talking about multibyte characters in its example, so converting it > to Latin-1 would destroy the point of that example. The job is not yet finished, so naturally there are problems we need to solve. I've just reverted the situation back to where it was before, to the point where we should discuss the possible solutions and choose the best one. > I sympathize with the goal of producing .info files portable to > all locales, but this revert is not solving that problem and it is > making matters significantly worse in other areas. The problem of quotes _is_ solved, in most of the Info files. Again, I'm not claiming we should release the files in their present shape. There's still work to be done, the question is what to do. > The other change you're advocating (converting to Latin-1) would be > worse yet. I don't see why it would be worse, please elaborate. > Instead, I suggest undoing the revert, and adding something to > postprocess the info files, to produce ASCII-only info files. > These could be used in locales that don't grok UTF-8. Doing > this will avoid screwing up the documentation in .html and .pdf > formats. I'll volunteer to write that. Are you suggesting to produce 2 separate sets of Info files? That could work, although it will be unusual (I don't think any other project does that). But if we go that way, there's no need to postprocess anything, just run makeinfo again with --disable-encoding and direct the output to a different place. If you suggest to have a single set of Info files, then I don't understand the proposal, or how it would help.