*Good* client for Android?

*Good* client for Android?

[John Goerzen]

Hi folks,

All along, I anticipated using this with Android (and, ideally, also
iOS).  The MobileOrg feature set looked great, and the syncing mechanism
looked a lot better than sharing Dropbox.

I use git to share my ~/org between two computers (laptop and desktop),
using git-remote-gcrypt to store on a server.  This makes syncing and
resolving conflicts easy (I move between the two throughout the day, so
Dropbox is really not a great option here.)  Sync integrity -- or at
least robust detection of conflicts -- is a must.  Encryption is a "very
nice to have."

Suggestions?

Here's what I've found so far:

MobileOrg - supports WebDAV storage.  Has a robust sync system,
integrated with org-mode, in which it seems to be able to write out its
changes to a separate file that the computer can integrate.  Sounds
smart, though I suspect it will require additional hacking to support
multiple Android devices.  org-mode docs mention encryption for this,
but the encryption is not supported by MobileOrg.  Also, MobileOrg was
last updated 4 years ago and seems to have bitrotted.

Orgzly - Supports only Dropbox or local-on-Android storage. The latter
is insecure, as it permits any app on the system to read the files.  I
am really not sure how to integrate this with my workflow.  It seems
like potentials for conflicts are extremely high.

SyncOrg - Shows some promise, but couldn't even test locally due to the
folder selection screen not working for the "External/Local Only." 
Suspect it's trying to do something insecure as well, or doesn't work on
Oreo?  ssh support seems to actually be ssh+git, which is nice - except
that it's unencrypted.  doh.  The documentation made no mention of
resolving conflicts.  https://github.com/wizmer/syncorg/wiki/FAQ seems
to suggest it uses the old MobileOrg push/pull in org-mode, but I can't
see how that possibly works well with Git.  I suspect that FAQ to be
totally obsolete, because it also talks about a Dropbox synchronizer
that SyncOrg doesn't even have.  I could use this if I drop
git-remote-gcrypt, I hope.

MobileOrg-NG - Last updated in 2012.  Didn't really look past that.

Re: *Good* client for Android?

[Martin Alsinet]

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Hello John:

If your phone screen is big enough, you could use termux
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux&hl=en> + emacs +
git & git-remote-gcrypt.
With that you could use the same stack on Android as on your laptop.

Termux is a linux console for Android that lets you install packages with
something similar to apt-get in debian/ubuntu.
I am thinking about getting a cheap Android tablet myself in order to have
a ultra light mobile workstation with termux.
On the other hand, a terminal console on a 5 inch phone screen doesn't seem
to be very practical for prolonged work.


Martin

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 4:32 PM John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> All along, I anticipated using this with Android (and, ideally, also
> iOS).  The MobileOrg feature set looked great, and the syncing mechanism
> looked a lot better than sharing Dropbox.
>
> I use git to share my ~/org between two computers (laptop and desktop),
> using git-remote-gcrypt to store on a server.  This makes syncing and
> resolving conflicts easy (I move between the two throughout the day, so
> Dropbox is really not a great option here.)  Sync integrity -- or at
> least robust detection of conflicts -- is a must.  Encryption is a "very
> nice to have."
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Here's what I've found so far:
>
> MobileOrg - supports WebDAV storage.  Has a robust sync system,
> integrated with org-mode, in which it seems to be able to write out its
> changes to a separate file that the computer can integrate.  Sounds
> smart, though I suspect it will require additional hacking to support
> multiple Android devices.  org-mode docs mention encryption for this,
> but the encryption is not supported by MobileOrg.  Also, MobileOrg was
> last updated 4 years ago and seems to have bitrotted.
>
> Orgzly - Supports only Dropbox or local-on-Android storage. The latter
> is insecure, as it permits any app on the system to read the files.  I
> am really not sure how to integrate this with my workflow.  It seems
> like potentials for conflicts are extremely high.
>
> SyncOrg - Shows some promise, but couldn't even test locally due to the
> folder selection screen not working for the "External/Local Only."
> Suspect it's trying to do something insecure as well, or doesn't work on
> Oreo?  ssh support seems to actually be ssh+git, which is nice - except
> that it's unencrypted.  doh.  The documentation made no mention of
> resolving conflicts.  https://github.com/wizmer/syncorg/wiki/FAQ seems
> to suggest it uses the old MobileOrg push/pull in org-mode, but I can't
> see how that possibly works well with Git.  I suspect that FAQ to be
> totally obsolete, because it also talks about a Dropbox synchronizer
> that SyncOrg doesn't even have.  I could use this if I drop
> git-remote-gcrypt, I hope.
>
> MobileOrg-NG - Last updated in 2012.  Didn't really look past that.
>
>
>
>

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Re: *Good* client for Android?

[John Goerzen]

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Hi Martin,

Unfortunately, I am talking just a phone, so I don't think I'd find that
especially practical.

John

On 10/12/2017 06:01 PM, Martin Alsinet wrote:
> Hello John:
>
> If your phone screen is big enough, you could use termux
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux&hl=en> +
> emacs + git & git-remote-gcrypt.
> With that you could use the same stack on Android as on your laptop.
>
> Termux is a linux console for Android that lets you install packages
> with something similar to apt-get in debian/ubuntu.
> I am thinking about getting a cheap Android tablet myself in order to
> have a ultra light mobile workstation with termux.
> On the other hand, a terminal console on a 5 inch phone screen doesn't
> seem to be very practical for prolonged work.
>
>
> Martin
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 4:32 PM John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org
> <mailto:jgoerzen@complete.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hi folks,
>
>     All along, I anticipated using this with Android (and, ideally, also
>     iOS).  The MobileOrg feature set looked great, and the syncing
>     mechanism
>     looked a lot better than sharing Dropbox.
>
>     I use git to share my ~/org between two computers (laptop and
>     desktop),
>     using git-remote-gcrypt to store on a server.  This makes syncing and
>     resolving conflicts easy (I move between the two throughout the
>     day, so
>     Dropbox is really not a great option here.)  Sync integrity -- or at
>     least robust detection of conflicts -- is a must.  Encryption is a
>     "very
>     nice to have."
>
>     Suggestions?
>
>     Here's what I've found so far:
>
>     MobileOrg - supports WebDAV storage.  Has a robust sync system,
>     integrated with org-mode, in which it seems to be able to write
>     out its
>     changes to a separate file that the computer can integrate.  Sounds
>     smart, though I suspect it will require additional hacking to support
>     multiple Android devices.  org-mode docs mention encryption for this,
>     but the encryption is not supported by MobileOrg.  Also, MobileOrg was
>     last updated 4 years ago and seems to have bitrotted.
>
>     Orgzly - Supports only Dropbox or local-on-Android storage. The latter
>     is insecure, as it permits any app on the system to read the files.  I
>     am really not sure how to integrate this with my workflow.  It seems
>     like potentials for conflicts are extremely high.
>
>     SyncOrg - Shows some promise, but couldn't even test locally due
>     to the
>     folder selection screen not working for the "External/Local Only."
>     Suspect it's trying to do something insecure as well, or doesn't
>     work on
>     Oreo?  ssh support seems to actually be ssh+git, which is nice -
>     except
>     that it's unencrypted.  doh.  The documentation made no mention of
>     resolving conflicts.  https://github.com/wizmer/syncorg/wiki/FAQ seems
>     to suggest it uses the old MobileOrg push/pull in org-mode, but I
>     can't
>     see how that possibly works well with Git.  I suspect that FAQ to be
>     totally obsolete, because it also talks about a Dropbox synchronizer
>     that SyncOrg doesn't even have.  I could use this if I drop
>     git-remote-gcrypt, I hope.
>
>     MobileOrg-NG - Last updated in 2012.  Didn't really look past that.
>
>
>


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Re: *Good* client for Android?

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Thursday, 12 Oct 2017 at 16:28, John Goerzen wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> All along, I anticipated using this with Android (and, ideally, also
> iOS).  The MobileOrg feature set looked great, and the syncing mechanism
> looked a lot better than sharing Dropbox.
>
> I use git to share my ~/org between two computers (laptop and desktop),
> using git-remote-gcrypt to store on a server.  This makes syncing and
> resolving conflicts easy (I move between the two throughout the day, so
> Dropbox is really not a great option here.)  Sync integrity -- or at
> least robust detection of conflicts -- is a must.  Encryption is a "very
> nice to have."
>
> Suggestions?

I am not sure what you are asking for.  What is missing in MobileOrg?
You say it is suffering from bitrot but it works just fine for me on a
daily basis, with no issues having multiple Android devices using the
same location.  Okay, it no longer works with Dropbox but it does work
with a number of other media.

Maybe I missed it but what is not clear is what features you actually
require that you don't have other than the encryption aspect mentioned
above.

For instance, I have recently started playing with org-dropbox [1] for
capturing notes from an Android device.  But I will keep using MobileOrg
as I need Google calendar synchronisation.

The only way to truly work with org on your phone would be to have Emacs
on your phone.  That *is* possible but the currently available solutions
are less than useful (IMO).  The second best is to ssh to a system
running Emacs (as has already been suggested).

My own full solution is to have a palm sized computer running Emacs: the
Pandora [2] which is (hopefully) soon to be replaced by the Pyra [3].

eric

Footnotes: 
[1]  https://github.com/heikkil/org-dropbox

[2]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_(console)

[3]  https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/

-- 
: Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.2-98-g0b8316

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Re: *Good* client for Android?

[John Goerzen]

Eric S Fraga <esflists@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday, 12 Oct 2017 at 16:28, John Goerzen wrote:
>> Dropbox is really not a great option here.)  Sync integrity -- or at
>> least robust detection of conflicts -- is a must.  Encryption is a "very
>> nice to have."
>>
>> Suggestions?
>
> I am not sure what you are asking for.  What is missing in MobileOrg?
> You say it is suffering from bitrot but it works just fine for me on a
> daily basis, with no issues having multiple Android devices using the
> same location.  Okay, it no longer works with Dropbox but it does work
> with a number of other media.

The bitrot is a big concern.  Android moves pretty fast, and something
that was last updated in 2013 is likely to not play well with a phone on
Oreo (such as mine).  I could be surprised, I suppose.

I want as conflict-free a setup as possible, with good resolution of
conflicts when they do occur.  MobileOrg seems to be good at this, just
from reading the manual.  I'm not convinced that, say, Orgzly would be.

The other is that there is a lack of support for encryption.  It is not
an absolute requirement for me, but is certainly very much a "nice to
have".  Storing unencrypted stuff on a server is not really ideal.

(None of the other mobile clients save MobileOrg for iOS seem to have
this feature either.)

> For instance, I have recently started playing with org-dropbox [1] for
> capturing notes from an Android device.  But I will keep using MobileOrg
> as I need Google calendar synchronisation.

That's an interesting project - thanks.

-- John

Re: *Good* client for Android?

[Eric S Fraga]

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On Friday, 13 Oct 2017 at 08:34, John Goerzen wrote:

[...]

> The bitrot is a big concern.  Android moves pretty fast, and something
> that was last updated in 2013 is likely to not play well with a phone on
> Oreo (such as mine).  I could be surprised, I suppose.

I agree with the concern but I must admit at being quite impressed how
robust MobileOrg seems to be with respect to changes in Android
versions.  I've been using it for quite a few years now and have gone
through various phones/tablets and multiple versions of Android without
any issues.

The problem with Dropbox is due to Dropbox and not Android.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.2-98-g0b8316

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Re: *Good* client for Android?

[Leslie Watter]

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Dropbox has quitted their v1 API access a few days ago (Sept 28th), so
probably your problem with Dropbox will be everyone' s using MobileOrg
(including myself) and Dropbox.

Unfortunatelly I won' t have time to tackle with this until December 15th,
but I'm planning to upgrade MobileOrg's Dropbox API support (and perhaps
add a few new features).

Cheers,

LEslie

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Eric S Fraga <esflists@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Friday, 13 Oct 2017 at 08:34, John Goerzen wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > The bitrot is a big concern.  Android moves pretty fast, and something
> > that was last updated in 2013 is likely to not play well with a phone on
> > Oreo (such as mine).  I could be surprised, I suppose.
>
> I agree with the concern but I must admit at being quite impressed how
> robust MobileOrg seems to be with respect to changes in Android
> versions.  I've been using it for quite a few years now and have gone
> through various phones/tablets and multiple versions of Android without
> any issues.
>
> The problem with Dropbox is due to Dropbox and not Android.
>
> --
> : Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50, Org release_9.1.2-98-g0b8316
>



-- 
Leslie H. Watter

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Re: *Good* client for Android?

[Neil Jerram]

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Re: *Good* client for Android?

[John Goerzen]

Neil Jerram <neil@ossau.homelinux.net> writes:

> Hi John,
>
> There is a great discussion about adding git synchronization to Orgzly, in progress here:
> https://github.com/orgzly/orgzly-android/issues/24

Thanks for the pointer, Neil.  That is indeed encouraging.  I may have
to give up on my desire for encryption on the server, but this does
indeed sound appealing.

>
> I am enjoying the Orgzly UI on my phone, and I have similar org-mode usage to you, in that l also already use a git repo to
> synchronize changes that l make on two separate laptops. So when that Orgzly enhancement lands, I think it will be Ideal for me.
>
> Best wishes,
> Neil

Re: *Good* client for Android?

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

Best one that worked for me:

- Computer running:

  - Either as root or as normal user:

    - sshd with *only* key-based authentication.

  - As normal user:

    - GNU screen;

      - emacs --daemon && emacsclient -nw;

      - Detach from current session.

Now in cellphone:

  - Use SSH client to connect to computer as normal user;

  - Reattach to GNU screen session;

  - Now you have GNU Emacs and Org mode, and also GNU Screen if you do
    need to do some work outside GNU Emacs.

Also, with SSH, you have encryption. ;)

John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org> writes:

> Hi folks,
>
> All along, I anticipated using this with Android (and, ideally, also
> iOS).  The MobileOrg feature set looked great, and the syncing mechanism
> looked a lot better than sharing Dropbox.
>
> I use git to share my ~/org between two computers (laptop and desktop),
> using git-remote-gcrypt to store on a server.  This makes syncing and
> resolving conflicts easy (I move between the two throughout the day, so
> Dropbox is really not a great option here.)  Sync integrity -- or at
> least robust detection of conflicts -- is a must.  Encryption is a "very
> nice to have."
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Here's what I've found so far:
>
> MobileOrg - supports WebDAV storage.  Has a robust sync system,
> integrated with org-mode, in which it seems to be able to write out its
> changes to a separate file that the computer can integrate.  Sounds
> smart, though I suspect it will require additional hacking to support
> multiple Android devices.  org-mode docs mention encryption for this,
> but the encryption is not supported by MobileOrg.  Also, MobileOrg was
> last updated 4 years ago and seems to have bitrotted.
>
> Orgzly - Supports only Dropbox or local-on-Android storage. The latter
> is insecure, as it permits any app on the system to read the files.  I
> am really not sure how to integrate this with my workflow.  It seems
> like potentials for conflicts are extremely high.
>
> SyncOrg - Shows some promise, but couldn't even test locally due to the
> folder selection screen not working for the "External/Local Only." 
> Suspect it's trying to do something insecure as well, or doesn't work on
> Oreo?  ssh support seems to actually be ssh+git, which is nice - except
> that it's unencrypted.  doh.  The documentation made no mention of
> resolving conflicts.  https://github.com/wizmer/syncorg/wiki/FAQ seems
> to suggest it uses the old MobileOrg push/pull in org-mode, but I can't
> see how that possibly works well with Git.  I suspect that FAQ to be
> totally obsolete, because it also talks about a Dropbox synchronizer
> that SyncOrg doesn't even have.  I could use this if I drop
> git-remote-gcrypt, I hope.
>
> MobileOrg-NG - Last updated in 2012.  Didn't really look past that.
>
>
>
>

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Re: *Good* client for Android?

[Eric Thomas]

Hi John,

I like installing GNURootDebian (from source at
https://github.com/corbinlc/GNURootDebian) with Hackers Keyboard (from
Fdroid at https://f-droid.org/packages/org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard/)
on my Android devices. Then slapping a fresh instance of emacs on
there.

File perms and file system can be a bit tricky to get used to, but
once you get it, you basically have a working Debian instance on
Android. From there you can VC your dotfiles and orgfiles just like
you would another machine.

See this issue https://github.com/corbinlc/GNURootDebian/issues/159)
for good insights on how to install on a Nexus 7.

Take care