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From: Bastien Guerry <bzg@gnu.org>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Cc: Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>,  emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2023 06:19:43 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87bkfip3mo.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <874jq8ohbr.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sat, 25 Mar 2023 17:45:44 +0000")

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> Sure. This is not by itself a big deal. A number of Elisp libraries,
>>> including built-in Emacs libraries are loaded with side effects.
>>
>> It is still violation of conventions:
>>
>> (info "(elisp) Coding Conventions")
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Coding-Conventions.html
>>> D.1 Emacs Lisp Coding Conventions
>>> 
>>> Simply loading a package should not change Emacs’s editing behavior.
>>> Include a command or commands to enable and disable the feature, or to
>>> invoke it.
>>> 
>>> This convention is mandatory for any file that includes custom
>>> definitions. If fixing such a file to follow this convention requires an
>>> incompatible change, go ahead and make the incompatible change; don’t
>>> postpone it.
>
> This is convincing.
> I am then CCing Bastien, as, despite the Elisp convention, following it
> will break https://bzg.fr/en/the-software-maintainers-pledge/

FWIW, in this case, the mistake lies in breaking the Emacs Lisp coding
convention first.  When the breaking change is a side-effect of fixing
a bug, it is unavoidable.

-- 
 Bastien


  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-08-08  4:20 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-03-21  3:36 org-ctags land grab Nick Dokos
2023-03-21 16:40 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2023-03-22 12:03 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-23  5:14   ` Nick Dokos
2023-03-23 10:49     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-23 14:50       ` Max Nikulin
2023-03-25 17:45         ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? (was: org-ctags land grab) Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-27 15:14           ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? Max Nikulin
2023-03-28 10:02             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-27 16:10           ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? (was: org-ctags land grab) Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-03-28  9:55             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-08  4:19           ` Bastien Guerry [this message]
2023-08-08  8:48             ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-08 13:29               ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-09  7:48                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-08-10 19:50                   ` Nick Dokos
2023-08-11  7:36                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11  9:44                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 12:46                   ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-12 22:18                     ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-13  8:59                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14  0:57                         ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-14 10:34                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 13:19                       ` Fraga, Eric
2023-08-22 15:15                         ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-23  9:33                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 11:39                             ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 11:44                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:08                                 ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 12:15                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:36                                     ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 12:40                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:48                                         ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 12:56                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:01                                             ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:33                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:41                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:47                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:02                                             ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 13:36                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:43                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-25  9:16                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 14:08                                                 ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-25  2:59                                                   ` spookygostee
2023-08-25  9:53                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25  9:44                                                   ` [DISCUSSION] Re-design of inlinetasks (was: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25 17:58                                                     ` [DISCUSSION] Re-design of inlinetasks Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-26 10:58                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 11:42                                                         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-26 12:33                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 14:21                                                             ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-26 16:33                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 17:31                                                                 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-26 17:43                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 19:19                                                                     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-27  9:21                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 17:25                                                                         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-31  9:15                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 18:01                                                                   ` Russell Adams
2023-08-29 13:00                                                                     ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 11:49                                                                       ` Alain.Cochard
2023-08-30 12:36                                                                         ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 14:06                                                                           ` Alain.Cochard
2023-08-30 14:31                                                                             ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 14:39                                                                               ` Alain.Cochard
2023-08-30 15:08                                                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 15:13                                                                                   ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 18:32                                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:53                                         ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:04                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:11                                             ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:41                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:49                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-25  9:18                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 14:20                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:23                                       ` tomas
2023-08-24 13:29                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:36                                           ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:44                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 14:00                                               ` Russell Adams
2023-08-25  2:48                                                 ` spookygostee
2023-08-25  9:52                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:50                                           ` tomas
2023-08-25  9:49                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:11                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 12:21                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 14:43                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-08-24 23:07                                       ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-24 23:23                                         ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-24 23:24                                           ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-25  9:56                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25  9:56                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26  8:59                             ` Fraga, Eric
2023-08-26 12:30                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 13:16                                 ` Fraga, Eric
2023-08-22 15:40                         ` Russell Adams
2023-08-13  8:53                     ` [DISCUSSION] The future of org-mouse.el and org-inlinetask.el (was: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13  9:33                       ` [DISCUSSION] The future of org-mouse.el and org-inlinetask.el Bastien Guerry
2023-08-13 10:29                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14  7:48                     ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? Tom Gillespie
2023-08-15 14:10                     ` Timothy
2023-08-15 14:38                       ` Russell Adams
2023-08-15 15:21                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-15 18:58                           ` Tom Gillespie
2023-08-16 10:24                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-09 22:30               ` Or probably just fix the org-ctags hook functions? (was: Should we accept breaking changes ...) Jens Schmidt
2023-08-10 19:56                 ` Or probably just fix the org-ctags hook functions? Nick Dokos
2023-08-11  7:37                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 17:01                     ` Nick Dokos
2023-08-11 21:40                       ` Jens Schmidt
2023-08-11 21:48                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 22:43                           ` Jens Schmidt

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