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* Guix Bluetooth Headset
@ 2020-09-25 10:54 yasu
  2020-09-25 12:53 ` Joshua Branson
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: yasu @ 2020-09-25 10:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-guix

Hi,

Does anyone use Bluetooth Headset (say Bose NC 700) with Guix?

Please post the required configuration! :-)

Cheers,
Yasu


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset
  2020-09-25 10:54 Guix Bluetooth Headset yasu
@ 2020-09-25 12:53 ` Joshua Branson
  2020-09-25 14:16   ` Yasuaki Kudo
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Joshua Branson @ 2020-09-25 12:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: yasu; +Cc: help-guix


Have you tried looking at h-node.org?

That will give you some hints at what hardware works well with
GNU/Linux.

I personally have a RIG headset with integrated microphone.  It was a
bit of an impulse buy.  It doesn't use bluetooth.  It has one chord.  I
can use it to record my voice, or listen to music.  But I can't seem to
do both at the same time with it.  :( 

Thanks,

Joshua

--
Joshua Branson
Sent from Emacs and Gnus
https://gnucode.me


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset
  2020-09-25 12:53 ` Joshua Branson
@ 2020-09-25 14:16   ` Yasuaki Kudo
  2020-09-26 12:03     ` Ekaitz Zarraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Yasuaki Kudo @ 2020-09-25 14:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Joshua Branson; +Cc: help-guix

Hi Joshua,

My bluetooth USB device  itself seems to be recognized by  the kernel but there is this whole layers of software I don't understand - (when I used to use NixOS on the same hardware,  it worked - I think it was a combination of something called PulseAudi and Bluetooth)

So I just want to know whether someone  actually has a working configuration I can just copy.

I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it?

Cheers,
Yasu


> On Sep 25, 2020, at 21:53, Joshua Branson <jbranso@dismail.de> wrote:
> 
> 
> Have you tried looking at h-node.org?
> 
> That will give you some hints at what hardware works well with
> GNU/Linux.
> 
> I personally have a RIG headset with integrated microphone.  It was a
> bit of an impulse buy.  It doesn't use bluetooth.  It has one chord.  I
> can use it to record my voice, or listen to music.  But I can't seem to
> do both at the same time with it.  :( 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Joshua
> 
> --
> Joshua Branson
> Sent from Emacs and Gnus
> https://gnucode.me


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset
  2020-09-25 14:16   ` Yasuaki Kudo
@ 2020-09-26 12:03     ` Ekaitz Zarraga
  2020-09-26 13:17       ` Yasuaki Kudo
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Ekaitz Zarraga @ 2020-09-26 12:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Yasuaki Kudo; +Cc: help-guix, Joshua Branson

Hi all,

I'm a full-time Guix user but I don't really think I have average requirements for my computing.

I tried to connect to a bluetooth speaker once, there's a thread in the mailing lists about it... I didn't manage to do it.

I tried through Gnome first, and it literally doesn't show any Bluetooth device. I was able to use some bluetooth controllers like Bluez or so and I managed to pair the device (and Gnome still didn't recognize the bluetooth but did recognize the pairing, amazing stuff), but I didn't manage to make the music sound through it.

I'd like to help more but this is what I got.

This is the kind of things that are discouraging. Guix is a good thing but the user experience is sometimes plainly horrible, for stuff that should be simple.

> I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it?

I am curious too, because I only use Guix for the only computer I own, but I'm not sure if it could be reasonable for anyone else, mostly because sometimes Guix users are supposed to know too much about internal software layers and there's no help about those times where you don't know enough.

This bluetooth case is very accurate case to explain this kind of situation. Sound has a very weird software stack, if you combine it with bluetooth everything gets complicated. If you don't know about it you are in trouble.

Sorry for the depressing thoughts, but this is how I feel.

I hope you find your way to make it work and share it.

Best,
Ekaitz


‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Friday, September 25, 2020 4:16 PM, Yasuaki Kudo <yasu@yasuaki.com> wrote:

> Hi Joshua,
>
> My bluetooth USB device itself seems to be recognized by the kernel but there is this whole layers of software I don't understand - (when I used to use NixOS on the same hardware, it worked - I think it was a combination of something called PulseAudi and Bluetooth)
>
> So I just want to know whether someone actually has a working configuration I can just copy.
>
> I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it?
>
> Cheers,
> Yasu
>
> > On Sep 25, 2020, at 21:53, Joshua Branson jbranso@dismail.de wrote:
> > Have you tried looking at h-node.org?
> > That will give you some hints at what hardware works well with
> > GNU/Linux.
> > I personally have a RIG headset with integrated microphone. It was a
> > bit of an impulse buy. It doesn't use bluetooth. It has one chord. I
> > can use it to record my voice, or listen to music. But I can't seem to
> > do both at the same time with it. :(
> > Thanks,
> > Joshua
> > --
> > Joshua Branson
> > Sent from Emacs and Gnus
> > https://gnucode.me




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset
  2020-09-26 12:03     ` Ekaitz Zarraga
@ 2020-09-26 13:17       ` Yasuaki Kudo
  2020-09-26 13:31         ` Ekaitz Zarraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Yasuaki Kudo @ 2020-09-26 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ekaitz Zarraga; +Cc: help-guix, Joshua Branson

I totally agree - while diverging a little from my original bluetooth question, it seems that we need to have an "unofficial" "Guix-Compromised" downstream distribution.

The frustrating thing is that with the zero-tolerance attitude of Guix project (while well-meaning and I applaud such high standards), it is difficult to even discuss such things as tactical abandonment of libre-software purity in order dramatically improve the actual end-user experience.

We only effectively discuss delivering the best possible user-experience (while ignoring the ethical questions) when we can employ all possible means including using bad software form companies we dislike.

Having said that, I think the Guix' stance is actually very defendable and we would be barking up the wrong tree to complain to the Guix team.

This is why I think we need a proper downstream distribution of Guix with the goal of delivering the best Linux experience albeit with perhaps degraded software purity. 😅


-Yasu


> On Sep 26, 2020, at 21:03, Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@elenq.tech> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a full-time Guix user but I don't really think I have average requirements for my computing.
> 
> I tried to connect to a bluetooth speaker once, there's a thread in the mailing lists about it... I didn't manage to do it.
> 
> I tried through Gnome first, and it literally doesn't show any Bluetooth device. I was able to use some bluetooth controllers like Bluez or so and I managed to pair the device (and Gnome still didn't recognize the bluetooth but did recognize the pairing, amazing stuff), but I didn't manage to make the music sound through it.
> 
> I'd like to help more but this is what I got.
> 
> This is the kind of things that are discouraging. Guix is a good thing but the user experience is sometimes plainly horrible, for stuff that should be simple.
> 
>> I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it?
> 
> I am curious too, because I only use Guix for the only computer I own, but I'm not sure if it could be reasonable for anyone else, mostly because sometimes Guix users are supposed to know too much about internal software layers and there's no help about those times where you don't know enough.
> 
> This bluetooth case is very accurate case to explain this kind of situation. Sound has a very weird software stack, if you combine it with bluetooth everything gets complicated. If you don't know about it you are in trouble.
> 
> Sorry for the depressing thoughts, but this is how I feel.
> 
> I hope you find your way to make it work and share it.
> 
> Best,
> Ekaitz
> 
> 
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> On Friday, September 25, 2020 4:16 PM, Yasuaki Kudo <yasu@yasuaki.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Joshua,
>> 
>> My bluetooth USB device itself seems to be recognized by the kernel but there is this whole layers of software I don't understand - (when I used to use NixOS on the same hardware, it worked - I think it was a combination of something called PulseAudi and Bluetooth)
>> 
>> So I just want to know whether someone actually has a working configuration I can just copy.
>> 
>> I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Yasu
>> 
>>>> On Sep 25, 2020, at 21:53, Joshua Branson jbranso@dismail.de wrote:
>>> Have you tried looking at h-node.org?
>>> That will give you some hints at what hardware works well with
>>> GNU/Linux.
>>> I personally have a RIG headset with integrated microphone. It was a
>>> bit of an impulse buy. It doesn't use bluetooth. It has one chord. I
>>> can use it to record my voice, or listen to music. But I can't seem to
>>> do both at the same time with it. :(
>>> Thanks,
>>> Joshua
>>> --
>>> Joshua Branson
>>> Sent from Emacs and Gnus
>>> https://gnucode.me
> 
> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset
  2020-09-26 13:17       ` Yasuaki Kudo
@ 2020-09-26 13:31         ` Ekaitz Zarraga
  2020-09-26 14:04           ` Guillaume Le Vaillant
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Ekaitz Zarraga @ 2020-09-26 13:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Yasuaki Kudo; +Cc: help-guix, Joshua Branson

Well... I don't think both goals are incompatible.
I'm totally fine with Guix being Free Software only distribution and I encourage the project to keep that path because I strongly believe it's the right thing to do.
That doesn't mean the user needs to have a deep understanding of the software layers involved in a system. I'd say it's unrelated.

The issues with the device compatibility is a different story that should get better at some point, and there's NonGuix out there too that can solve some issues for those users that can accept binary blobs.

The problem with the bluetooth for instance it's not a matter of hardware support neither. I have the drivers for the device installed, but I have no clue about how to configure the software to make all the different pieces work together. That's something we can improve without compromising the Ethical values of Guix, which are, in my opinion unquestionable at this point.

This case of the sound system is a clear example of a software stack that have been too complex for ages in every single distro but distros managed well enough to hide that complexity from the users (because they were no actual reasons to expose it) and Guix didn't manage to do it that well. I'm 100% sure there's a working configuration we can already use, but it's *really* hard to find it.
That discoverability issue is what carries most of the friction with the user in Guix. Of course, in my opinion.

Hope we can use this thread to improve this point with some documentation, code or packages. I'm open to help in any of those areas.

Best,
Ekaitz



‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 3:17 PM, Yasuaki Kudo <yasu@yasuaki.com> wrote:

> I totally agree - while diverging a little from my original bluetooth question, it seems that we need to have an "unofficial" "Guix-Compromised" downstream distribution.
>
> The frustrating thing is that with the zero-tolerance attitude of Guix project (while well-meaning and I applaud such high standards), it is difficult to even discuss such things as tactical abandonment of libre-software purity in order dramatically improve the actual end-user experience.
>
> We only effectively discuss delivering the best possible user-experience (while ignoring the ethical questions) when we can employ all possible means including using bad software form companies we dislike.
>
> Having said that, I think the Guix' stance is actually very defendable and we would be barking up the wrong tree to complain to the Guix team.
>
> This is why I think we need a proper downstream distribution of Guix with the goal of delivering the best Linux experience albeit with perhaps degraded software purity. 😅
>
> -Yasu
>
> > On Sep 26, 2020, at 21:03, Ekaitz Zarraga ekaitz@elenq.tech wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I'm a full-time Guix user but I don't really think I have average requirements for my computing.
> > I tried to connect to a bluetooth speaker once, there's a thread in the mailing lists about it... I didn't manage to do it.
> > I tried through Gnome first, and it literally doesn't show any Bluetooth device. I was able to use some bluetooth controllers like Bluez or so and I managed to pair the device (and Gnome still didn't recognize the bluetooth but did recognize the pairing, amazing stuff), but I didn't manage to make the music sound through it.
> > I'd like to help more but this is what I got.
> > This is the kind of things that are discouraging. Guix is a good thing but the user experience is sometimes plainly horrible, for stuff that should be simple.
> >
> > > I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it?
> >
> > I am curious too, because I only use Guix for the only computer I own, but I'm not sure if it could be reasonable for anyone else, mostly because sometimes Guix users are supposed to know too much about internal software layers and there's no help about those times where you don't know enough.
> > This bluetooth case is very accurate case to explain this kind of situation. Sound has a very weird software stack, if you combine it with bluetooth everything gets complicated. If you don't know about it you are in trouble.
> > Sorry for the depressing thoughts, but this is how I feel.
> > I hope you find your way to make it work and share it.
> > Best,
> > Ekaitz
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >
> > > On Friday, September 25, 2020 4:16 PM, Yasuaki Kudo yasu@yasuaki.com wrote:
> > > Hi Joshua,
> > > My bluetooth USB device itself seems to be recognized by the kernel but there is this whole layers of software I don't understand - (when I used to use NixOS on the same hardware, it worked - I think it was a combination of something called PulseAudi and Bluetooth)
> > > So I just want to know whether someone actually has a working configuration I can just copy.
> > > I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing computers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package manager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it?
> > > Cheers,
> > > Yasu
> > >
> > > > > On Sep 25, 2020, at 21:53, Joshua Branson jbranso@dismail.de wrote:
> > > > > Have you tried looking at h-node.org?
> > > > > That will give you some hints at what hardware works well with
> > > > > GNU/Linux.
> > > > > I personally have a RIG headset with integrated microphone. It was a
> > > > > bit of an impulse buy. It doesn't use bluetooth. It has one chord. I
> > > > > can use it to record my voice, or listen to music. But I can't seem to
> > > > > do both at the same time with it. :(
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Joshua
> > > > > --
> > > > > Joshua Branson
> > > > > Sent from Emacs and Gnus
> > > > > https://gnucode.me




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset
  2020-09-26 13:31         ` Ekaitz Zarraga
@ 2020-09-26 14:04           ` Guillaume Le Vaillant
  2020-09-26 15:49             ` Ekaitz Zarraga
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Guillaume Le Vaillant @ 2020-09-26 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ekaitz Zarraga; +Cc: help-guix, Joshua Branson


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1011 bytes --]


Hi,

I have a headset that can be used either with a cord or with Bluetooth,
and I got it to almost work with Bluetooth. The only problem I have is
that I want it to use the A2DP profile but most of the time it decides
to use the HSP profile and refuses to switch to A2DP, therefore the
sound is not as good.

In my 'config.scm' file I had to modify the pulseaudio service to use
a custom configuration file (in attachment):

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(operating-system
  ...
  (services
   (cons* ...
          (bluetooth-service)
          (modify-services %desktop-services
            (pulseaudio-service-type config =>
              (pulseaudio-configuration
               (inherit config)
               (script-file (local-file "/etc/guix/default.pa"))))))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I'm also using the vanilla Linux kernel instead of Linux-libre, but I'm
not sure if it makes a difference for Bluetooth headsets.

HTH!

[-- Attachment #1.2: default.pa --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 4820 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 247 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset
  2020-09-26 14:04           ` Guillaume Le Vaillant
@ 2020-09-26 15:49             ` Ekaitz Zarraga
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Ekaitz Zarraga @ 2020-09-26 15:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Guillaume Le Vaillant; +Cc: help-guix, Joshua Branson




ElenQ Technology
Ethical Innovation

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 4:04 PM, Guillaume Le Vaillant <glv@posteo.net> wrote:

>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a headset that can be used either with a cord or with Bluetooth,
> and I got it to almost work with Bluetooth. The only problem I have is
> that I want it to use the A2DP profile but most of the time it decides
> to use the HSP profile and refuses to switch to A2DP, therefore the
> sound is not as good.
>
> In my 'config.scm' file I had to modify the pulseaudio service to use
> a custom configuration file (in attachment):
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> (operating-system
> ...
> (services
> (cons* ...
> (bluetooth-service)
> (modify-services %desktop-services
> (pulseaudio-service-type config =>
>
>               (pulseaudio-configuration
>                (inherit config)
>                (script-file (local-file "/etc/guix/default.pa"))))))))
>
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> I'm also using the vanilla Linux kernel instead of Linux-libre, but I'm
> not sure if it makes a difference for Bluetooth headsets.
>
> HTH!

Thanks for example!
The main problem I see to this approach is that it doesn't look very accessible...

I'll try to make it work in my speaker.

Best,
Ekaitz


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-09-26 15:50 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-09-25 10:54 Guix Bluetooth Headset yasu
2020-09-25 12:53 ` Joshua Branson
2020-09-25 14:16   ` Yasuaki Kudo
2020-09-26 12:03     ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2020-09-26 13:17       ` Yasuaki Kudo
2020-09-26 13:31         ` Ekaitz Zarraga
2020-09-26 14:04           ` Guillaume Le Vaillant
2020-09-26 15:49             ` Ekaitz Zarraga

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