From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 0L6iFMxCb1+dfgAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:31:56 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id qMlfEMxCb1+kUQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:31:56 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66B879402AC for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:31:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50278 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMAIr-0002it-Iz for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 09:31:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49100) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMAIY-0002iZ-Pm for help-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 09:31:35 -0400 Received: from mail1.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.18]:47624) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kMAIT-0001h9-Fh for help-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Sep 2020 09:31:34 -0400 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 13:31:18 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=elenq.tech; s=protonmail2; t=1601127085; bh=4Hu1ymiE8INWM9wZ7r6CfDHJW//kk9krnpvG9wOrRRI=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=l3p3a//SZsoLflL0I0DtQmuTxTahbGHzc6h6rTsI3hOMHbYvp24+GdZhFmz/S6Q66 ca2eJZm4ENuziWVUvvRdxFXgZGkXwuhq6zhYQ3wHjLvuin8qDkMM5EtsOkAa4Qcjmz LaXtMQMpWFhUhUf29goQV+1ugu9z4mxoNZ6ohR7mg0gjy1FaGs0gTa7aws+Uythte2 IWH/6Jka2tThq7J3XFFVSeB0joG3T/t8VlxtYMNQfwA6CBsw0ak9xmynEPfB8DoOq/ FUXZFjEsl7xSneKDpdiV+PfFg9dvKHMKlTiqW0PHKelmf5wJ0FX2bxLwezUflvFmae m94Yaf5SPHcYQ== To: Yasuaki Kudo From: Ekaitz Zarraga Subject: Re: Guix Bluetooth Headset Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <99990F19-DA6A-40B1-8263-8533EA28AAB9@yasuaki.com> References: <99990F19-DA6A-40B1-8263-8533EA28AAB9@yasuaki.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.18; envelope-from=ekaitz@elenq.tech; helo=mail1.protonmail.ch X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/26 08:03:49 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Ekaitz Zarraga Cc: "help-guix@gnu.org" , Joshua Branson Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=elenq.tech header.s=protonmail2 header.b=l3p3a//S; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=elenq.tech (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 1.59 X-TUID: GSiK+gwCaz37 Well... I don't think both goals are incompatible. I'm totally fine with Guix being Free Software only distribution and I enco= urage the project to keep that path because I strongly believe it's the rig= ht thing to do. That doesn't mean the user needs to have a deep understanding of the softwa= re layers involved in a system. I'd say it's unrelated. The issues with the device compatibility is a different story that should g= et better at some point, and there's NonGuix out there too that can solve s= ome issues for those users that can accept binary blobs. The problem with the bluetooth for instance it's not a matter of hardware s= upport neither. I have the drivers for the device installed, but I have no = clue about how to configure the software to make all the different pieces w= ork together. That's something we can improve without compromising the Ethi= cal values of Guix, which are, in my opinion unquestionable at this point. This case of the sound system is a clear example of a software stack that h= ave been too complex for ages in every single distro but distros managed we= ll enough to hide that complexity from the users (because they were no actu= al reasons to expose it) and Guix didn't manage to do it that well. I'm 100= % sure there's a working configuration we can already use, but it's *really= * hard to find it. That discoverability issue is what carries most of the friction with the us= er in Guix. Of course, in my opinion. Hope we can use this thread to improve this point with some documentation, = code or packages. I'm open to help in any of those areas. Best, Ekaitz =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Saturday, September 26, 2020 3:17 PM, Yasuaki Kudo wr= ote: > I totally agree - while diverging a little from my original bluetooth que= stion, it seems that we need to have an "unofficial" "Guix-Compromised" dow= nstream distribution. > > The frustrating thing is that with the zero-tolerance attitude of Guix pr= oject (while well-meaning and I applaud such high standards), it is difficu= lt to even discuss such things as tactical abandonment of libre-software pu= rity in order dramatically improve the actual end-user experience. > > We only effectively discuss delivering the best possible user-experience = (while ignoring the ethical questions) when we can employ all possible mean= s including using bad software form companies we dislike. > > Having said that, I think the Guix' stance is actually very defendable an= d we would be barking up the wrong tree to complain to the Guix team. > > This is why I think we need a proper downstream distribution of Guix with= the goal of delivering the best Linux experience albeit with perhaps degra= ded software purity. =F0=9F=98=85 > > -Yasu > > > On Sep 26, 2020, at 21:03, Ekaitz Zarraga ekaitz@elenq.tech wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm a full-time Guix user but I don't really think I have average requi= rements for my computing. > > I tried to connect to a bluetooth speaker once, there's a thread in the= mailing lists about it... I didn't manage to do it. > > I tried through Gnome first, and it literally doesn't show any Bluetoot= h device. I was able to use some bluetooth controllers like Bluez or so and= I managed to pair the device (and Gnome still didn't recognize the bluetoo= th but did recognize the pairing, amazing stuff), but I didn't manage to ma= ke the music sound through it. > > I'd like to help more but this is what I got. > > This is the kind of things that are discouraging. Guix is a good thing = but the user experience is sometimes plainly horrible, for stuff that shoul= d be simple. > > > > > I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing co= mputers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package man= ager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it? > > > > I am curious too, because I only use Guix for the only computer I own, = but I'm not sure if it could be reasonable for anyone else, mostly because = sometimes Guix users are supposed to know too much about internal software = layers and there's no help about those times where you don't know enough. > > This bluetooth case is very accurate case to explain this kind of situa= tion. Sound has a very weird software stack, if you combine it with bluetoo= th everything gets complicated. If you don't know about it you are in troub= le. > > Sorry for the depressing thoughts, but this is how I feel. > > I hope you find your way to make it work and share it. > > Best, > > Ekaitz > > =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Origina= l Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80= =90 > > > > > On Friday, September 25, 2020 4:16 PM, Yasuaki Kudo yasu@yasuaki.com = wrote: > > > Hi Joshua, > > > My bluetooth USB device itself seems to be recognized by the kernel b= ut there is this whole layers of software I don't understand - (when I used= to use NixOS on the same hardware, it worked - I think it was a combinatio= n of something called PulseAudi and Bluetooth) > > > So I just want to know whether someone actually has a working configu= ration I can just copy. > > > I am curious how many people actually use Guix for the user-facing co= mputers - do people use Ubuntu something and use Guix as a mere package man= ager or install Guix on a headless (virtual) computer and remotely use it? > > > Cheers, > > > Yasu > > > > > > > > On Sep 25, 2020, at 21:53, Joshua Branson jbranso@dismail.de wrot= e: > > > > > Have you tried looking at h-node.org? > > > > > That will give you some hints at what hardware works well with > > > > > GNU/Linux. > > > > > I personally have a RIG headset with integrated microphone. It wa= s a > > > > > bit of an impulse buy. It doesn't use bluetooth. It has one chord= . I > > > > > can use it to record my voice, or listen to music. But I can't se= em to > > > > > do both at the same time with it. :( > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Joshua > > > > > -- > > > > > Joshua Branson > > > > > Sent from Emacs and Gnus > > > > > https://gnucode.me