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From: Attila Lendvai <attila@lendvai.name>
To: Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com>
Cc: "Liliana Marie Prikler" <liliana.prikler@gmail.com>,
	"Edouard Klein" <edou@rdklein.fr>,
	guix-devel@gnu.org, "Ludovic Courtès" <ludo@gnu.org>,
	"Josselin Poiret" <dev@jpoiret.xyz>
Subject: Re: Syntactic Diabetes (was Re: A friendlier API for operating-system declarations)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2023 11:16:12 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4H69vnQJrUA5WrVPVfQknwCz2ymq8NFyOnp0cCuqZiUVpSAwp6QAhonzbnSpsuRZJcZUX4dmV-U-qhV7CXNH5UOaGV8IEaL2fY8qXmPnmns=@lendvai.name> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87ttp4jfiy.fsf@lease-up.com>

> > the downside of generating countless macros is that they won't show up
> > in backtraces, and they cannot be found when grep'ping the codebase,
> > and as such make the codebase much less approachable.
> 
> 
> Reading your words really helped me feel that I'm not alone. You more or
> less summarized my feelings about the Guix codebase, which I have been
> reading now for over a year. Guile's syntax features make the code more
> symbolic and less approachable to newcomers.


just FTR, i don't think that the guix codebase is too bad in this regard.

here i just wanted to remind people to the not so obvious cost of syntactic abstractions that should be accounted for when making decisions. introducing macros that generate macros is rarely justified.

in general, it's *very* valuable when stuff can be grep'ped -- and not only for newcomers. after enough time has passed i can feel like a newcomer to my own codebase... :) modulo the protocols that i keep while writing code.

e.g. define.*whatever is a grep that i regularly employ. the pattern here is that although there are countless ways to define countless different stuff, there's a convention to stick to the define.*[name] pattern.

intuitive, unique (i.e. grep'pable) names are also key to facilitate code approachability, especially for abstractions that are scattered around in many source files. in some situations i even copy-paste names of abstractions into comments for any future grep'ping to pick it up.

a negative example for this in the guix codebase is the use of 'service' to describe two rather different abstractions: a component of an OS vs. a deamon process run by shepherd. for a while it caused me quite some confusion.

</rant>

-- 
• attila lendvai
• PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39
--
“The State is that organization in society which attempts to maintain a monopoly of the use of force and violence in a given territorial area; in particular, it is the only organization in society that obtains its revenue not by voluntary contribution or payment for services rendered but by coercion.”
	— Murray N. Rothbard (1926–1995), 'Anatomy of the State' (1974)



  reply	other threads:[~2023-11-30 11:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 30+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-03-23  8:06 A friendlier API for operating-system declarations Edouard Klein
2023-03-23 18:48 ` Josselin Poiret
2023-03-23 20:23   ` Edouard Klein
2023-03-23 21:05 ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-04-13  9:42 ` Ludovic Courtès
2023-05-18 14:37   ` Edouard Klein
2023-11-24 21:43 ` Syntactic Diabetes (was Re: A friendlier API for operating-system declarations) Edouard Klein
2023-11-24 22:50   ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-11-25 20:14     ` Attila Lendvai
2023-11-26  5:36       ` Michal Atlas
2023-11-26 16:49       ` Edouard Klein
2023-11-26 18:32         ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-11-26 20:46           ` Edouard Klein
2023-11-27 21:09             ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2023-11-29 20:12               ` Attila Lendvai
2023-11-29 23:39                 ` Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2023-11-30 11:16                   ` Attila Lendvai [this message]
2023-12-01 18:18                     ` Michal Atlas
2024-02-01 13:29                     ` Introducing Guix "Features"! (Was: Syntactic Diabetes) Felix Lechner via Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution.
2024-02-01 19:43                       ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2024-02-01 20:30                         ` Attila Lendvai
2024-02-01 20:46                           ` Liliana Marie Prikler
2024-02-02 20:11                             ` Attila Lendvai
2024-02-01 21:02                           ` Ricardo Wurmus
2024-02-02 19:36                             ` Attila Lendvai
2024-02-02 20:21                               ` Vagrant Cascadian
2024-02-02 21:25                                 ` Attila Lendvai
2024-02-02  0:03                       ` Introducing Guix "Features"! Carlo Zancanaro
2024-02-18 15:07                       ` Introducing Guix "Features"! (Was: Syntactic Diabetes) Edouard Klein
2023-12-09 10:12         ` Syntactic Diabetes (was Re: A friendlier API for operating-system declarations) Ludovic Courtès

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