Logo proposal

Logo proposal

[sirgazil]

Hi,

It's been a while since I designed the current Guile logo. This logo has what I called retracted and expanded forms. The former is the G in parenthesis, and the latter is the one in the website header bar.

I'm fine with the retracted form, I actually like it, but everytime I see the expanded form, the overlapping of shapes bothers me. So I would like to propose two alternative designs:

https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png

Personally, I like the one with the single lambda.


What do you think?


---
https://sirgazil.bitbucket.io/

Re: Logo proposal

[Marc Chantreux]

hello,

> It's been a while since I designed the current Guile logo.

my perspective as newcomer:

* the current logo is splendid
* i feel it fits better with the visual identity of the language

> What do you think?

* amazing! but nothing compares to the current one :)
* it would be cool to have λ as an alias to lambda in guile so
  we could be able to write

    (λ (x) (* x x))

my two cents
marc

Re: Logo proposal

[sirgazil]

 ---- On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:14:59 -0500 Marc Chantreux <mc@unistra.fr> wrote ----
 > hello,
 > 
 > > It's been a while since I designed the current Guile logo.
 > 
 > my perspective as newcomer:
 > 
 > * the current logo is splendid
 > * i feel it fits better with the visual identity of the language
 > 
 > > What do you think?
 > 
 > * amazing! but nothing compares to the current one :)
 > * it would be cool to have λ as an alias to lambda in guile so
 >   we could be able to write
 > 
 >     (λ (x) (* x x))
 > 
 > my two cents

Ha, ha, Ok.

Thanks, Marc :)

Re: Logo proposal

[Arne Babenhauserheide]

Marc Chantreux <mc@unistra.fr> writes:
> * it would be cool to have λ as an alias to lambda in guile so
>   we could be able to write
>
>     (λ (x) (* x x))

Did you try it?
(spoiler: that’s what I’ve been using for years :-) )

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein
ohne es zu merken

Re: Logo proposal

[Marc Chantreux]

hello,

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 12:30:51AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
> Did you try it?

i never seen λ used in the documentation or code so what i actually
wrote a macro:
    (define-syntax λ
      (syntax-rules ()
        ((λ sign ...)
         (lambda sign ...))))

i just removed it and the code is still working. thanks a lot.

marc

Re: Logo proposal

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

On 1/27/20 2:03 PM, Marc Chantreux wrote:
> hello,
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 12:30:51AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
>> Did you try it?
> i never seen λ used in the documentation or code so what i actually
> wrote a macro:
>     (define-syntax λ
>       (syntax-rules ()
>         ((λ sign ...)
>          (lambda sign ...))))
>
> i just removed it and the code is still working. thanks a lot.
>
> marc
>
The thing is, it does not work in Geiser in Emacs.

It does work in normal program code, but if you use the REPL all the
time, it becomes annoying. It looks very neat though.

Regards,
Zelphir

Re: Logo proposal

[Jose A. Ortega Ruiz]

On Tue, Jan 28 2020, Zelphir Kaltstahl wrote:

> On 1/27/20 2:03 PM, Marc Chantreux wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 12:30:51AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
>>> Did you try it?
>> i never seen λ used in the documentation or code so what i actually
>> wrote a macro:
>>     (define-syntax λ
>>       (syntax-rules ()
>>         ((λ sign ...)
>>          (lambda sign ...))))
>>
>> i just removed it and the code is still working. thanks a lot.
>>
>> marc
>>
> The thing is, it does not work in Geiser in Emacs.

Hmm, it does work for me.  For instance, this simple example

   (define-module (foo))

   (define foo (λ () 3))

in foo.scm does what i expect.  Also using λ directly in the REPL works
for me.  What behaviour are you observing instead?  Could it be that
you're not using UTF-8 as your encoding?

Cheers,
jao
-- 
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter
 how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first,
 and is waiting for it."
  -Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

Re: Logo proposal

[Zelphir Kaltstahl]

Hmmm, I tried again and it worked in command line REPL and Geiser.
Weird, I was remembering something did not work. Perhaps it was only
when I needed lambda* or something. Great, I can use it more often again!

On 1/28/20 1:44 AM, Jose A. Ortega Ruiz wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 28 2020, Zelphir Kaltstahl wrote:
>
>> On 1/27/20 2:03 PM, Marc Chantreux wrote:
>>> hello,
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 12:30:51AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
>>>> Did you try it?
>>> i never seen λ used in the documentation or code so what i actually
>>> wrote a macro:
>>>     (define-syntax λ
>>>       (syntax-rules ()
>>>         ((λ sign ...)
>>>          (lambda sign ...))))
>>>
>>> i just removed it and the code is still working. thanks a lot.
>>>
>>> marc
>>>
>> The thing is, it does not work in Geiser in Emacs.
> Hmm, it does work for me.  For instance, this simple example
>
>    (define-module (foo))
>
>    (define foo (λ () 3))
>
> in foo.scm does what i expect.  Also using λ directly in the REPL works
> for me.  What behaviour are you observing instead?  Could it be that
> you're not using UTF-8 as your encoding?
>
> Cheers,
> jao

Re: Logo proposal

[Mikhail Kryshen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1111 bytes --]

Zelphir Kaltstahl <zelphirkaltstahl@posteo.de> writes:

> On 1/27/20 2:03 PM, Marc Chantreux wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 12:30:51AM +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
>>> Did you try it?
>> i never seen λ used in the documentation or code so what i actually
>> wrote a macro:
>>     (define-syntax λ
>>       (syntax-rules ()
>>         ((λ sign ...)
>>          (lambda sign ...))))
>>
>> i just removed it and the code is still working. thanks a lot.
>>
>> marc
>>
> The thing is, it does not work in Geiser in Emacs.
>
> It does work in normal program code, but if you use the REPL all the
> time, it becomes annoying. It looks very neat though.

Add this to your ~/.emacs and you should be able to use "C-c \" to
insert λ in Geiser REPL like in normal Scheme buffer:

(add-hook 'geiser-repl-mode-hook
          (lambda ()
            (require 'geiser-mode)
            (define-key geiser-repl-mode-map "\C-c\\" 'geiser-insert-lambda)))

It's strange though, that geiser-mode has this binding by default, but
geser-repl-mode does not.

-- 
Mikhail

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 658 bytes --]

Re: Logo proposal

[Jose A. Ortega Ruiz]

On Tue, Jan 28 2020, Mikhail Kryshen wrote:

[...]

> It's strange though, that geiser-mode has this binding by default, but
> geser-repl-mode does not.

Indeed.  I've added both C-c \ and C-c [ to the repl shortcuts (with the
usual alternatives C-c C-\ and C-c C-[).  It should be available in
MELPA unstable when they update next.  Thanks for the suggestion!

(BTW, C-u C-c \ will insert (λ ())).

Cheers,
jao
-- 
It is a truism of escape plans that the problem with going anywhere is
that you take yourself with you -- Emma Brockes

Re: Logo proposal

[John Cowan]

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:02 PM sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> wrote:

https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png
>
> Personally, I like the one with the single lambda.
>
>
> What do you think?
>

As I mentioned on IRC, my favorites are the 3rd row on the left (red
lambda, white background) and the 1st row on the right (yellow lambda,
black background.  I think the four-lambda versions are too busy, and the
two I mentioned obey the heraldic "rules of tincture", which were designed
to make a knight's shield or a flag maximally visible.

ObDetails: The rules divide the different tinctures (colors) into two
groups: the "metals" yellow and white, and the "colors", everything else,
and state that two metals cannot be adjacent, nor can two colors.  Thus
both black (a color) letters on white (a metal) and white letters on black
print are fine.  So are the red lambda on the white background and the gold
lambda on the metal background.  But the gold lambda on the white
background is metal-on-metal, and the red lambda on the black background is
color-on-color.  These rules are by no means obsolete: they govern the
design of flags and traffic signs to this day.

There are exceptions: the U.S. flag has color-on-color where the top four
red stripes touch the blue quadrant, but this is considered only a minor
violation that doesn't affect visibility.  Likewise one version of the arms
of God (as invented by early modern heralds) uses only yellow and white,
but hey, it's not like anyone will bear *those* arms into battle.  Finally,
when something on a shield is shown in its natural colors, the rules of
tincture can be broken, as in the arms of the Devil:  "gules a fess Or
between three frogs proper", where the (green) frogs can appear on the red
background.



John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
A poetical purist named Cowan                   [that's me]
Once put the rest of us dowan.                  [on xml-dev]
"Your verse would be sweeter / If it only had metre
And rhymes that didn't force me to frowan."     [overpacked line!]
--Michael Kay

>
>
> ---
> https://sirgazil.bitbucket.io/
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Logo proposal

[sirgazil]

 ---- On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 17:47:16 -0500 John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote ----
 > 
 > 
 > On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:02 PM sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> wrote:
 > 
 > https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png
 > 
 > Personally, I like the one with the single lambda.
 > 
 > 
 > What do you think?
 >  As I mentioned on IRC, my favorites are the 3rd row on the left (red lambda, white background) and the 1st row on the right (yellow lambda, black background.  I think the four-lambda versions are too busy, and the two I mentioned obey the heraldic "rules of tincture", which were designed to make a knight's shield or a flag maximally visible.
 > ObDetails: The rules divide the different tinctures (colors) into two groups: the "metals" yellow and white, and the "colors", everything else, and state that two metals cannot be adjacent, nor can two colors.  Thus both black (a color) letters on white (a metal) and white letters on black print are fine.  So are the red lambda on the white background and the gold lambda on the metal background.  But the gold lambda on the white background is metal-on-metal, and the red lambda on the black background is color-on-color.  These rules are by no means obsolete: they govern the design of flags and traffic signs to this day.

Thanks for commenting, John, and for the information (I had no idea about that).

Re: Logo proposal

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hello,

John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> writes:

> On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:02 PM sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> wrote:
>
> https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png
>>
>> Personally, I like the one with the single lambda.
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>
> As I mentioned on IRC, my favorites are the 3rd row on the left (red
> lambda, white background) and the 1st row on the right (yellow lambda,
> black background.  I think the four-lambda versions are too busy, and the
> two I mentioned obey the heraldic "rules of tincture", which were designed
> to make a knight's shield or a flag maximally visible.

My preferences are in agreement with those of John.  Those are easy on
the eyes and simple (pure).

Thank you for the great designs!

Maxim

Re: Logo proposal

[sirgazil]

Linus, Maxim, hello,



 ---- On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:57:43 -0500 Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> wrote ----
 > Hello,
 > 
 > John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> writes:
 > 
 > > On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 12:02 PM sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> wrote:
 > >
 > > https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png
 > >>
 > >> Personally, I like the one with the single lambda.
 > >>
 > >>
 > >> What do you think?
 > >>
 > >
 > > As I mentioned on IRC, my favorites are the 3rd row on the left (red
 > > lambda, white background) and the 1st row on the right (yellow lambda,
 > > black background.  I think the four-lambda versions are too busy, and the
 > > two I mentioned obey the heraldic "rules of tincture", which were designed
 > > to make a knight's shield or a flag maximally visible.
 > 
 > My preferences are in agreement with those of John.  Those are easy on
 > the eyes and simple (pure).
 > 
 > Thank you for the great designs!
 

Actually, I'm withdrawing the proposal. It seems to me that what bothers me about the current logo is not that much of a problem to other people, and that's good. If a logo change can be avoided, it's fine :)

Thank you all for your feedback.

Re: Logo proposal

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi sirgazil,

sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis:

> It's been a while since I designed the current Guile logo. This logo has what I called retracted and expanded forms. The former is the G in parenthesis, and the latter is the one in the website header bar.
>
> I'm fine with the retracted form, I actually like it, but everytime I see the expanded form, the overlapping of shapes bothers me. So I would like to propose two alternative designs:
>
> https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png

I like the proposals… but I prefer the current one.  :-)

The way I see it, λ is all too common among functional programming
languages and tools.  So it’s both a rallying symbol and one that makes
your project indistinguishable from others in the same domain.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Logo proposal

[Jérémy Korwin-Zmijowski]

Hi Sirgazil, 

I kind of really like the actual logo ! More than your propositions. 

Thank you,
Jeko

Le 28 janvier 2020 10:26:46 GMT+01:00, "Ludovic Courtès" <ludo@gnu.org> a écrit :
>Hi sirgazil,
>
>sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis:
>
>> It's been a while since I designed the current Guile logo. This logo
>has what I called retracted and expanded forms. The former is the G in
>parenthesis, and the latter is the one in the website header bar.
>>
>> I'm fine with the retracted form, I actually like it, but everytime I
>see the expanded form, the overlapping of shapes bothers me. So I would
>like to propose two alternative designs:
>>
>>
>https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png
>
>I like the proposals… but I prefer the current one.  :-)
>
>The way I see it, λ is all too common among functional programming
>languages and tools.  So it’s both a rallying symbol and one that makes
>your project indistinguishable from others in the same domain.
>
>Thanks,
>Ludo’.

-- 
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma brièveté.

Re: Logo proposal

[sirgazil]

 ---- On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 05:26:01 -0500 Jérémy Korwin-Zmijowski_ <jeremy@korwin-zmijowski.fr> wrote ----
 > Hi Sirgazil, 
 > 
 > I kind of really like the actual logo ! More than your propositions. 

Great, thank you for your feedback, Jérémy :)

Re: Logo proposal

[sirgazil]

 ---- On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 04:26:46 -0500 Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote ----
 > Hi sirgazil,
 > 
 > sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis:
 > 
 > > It's been a while since I designed the current Guile logo. This logo has what I called retracted and expanded forms. The former is the G in parenthesis, and the latter is the one in the website header bar.
 > >
 > > I'm fine with the retracted form, I actually like it, but everytime I see the expanded form, the overlapping of shapes bothers me. So I would like to propose two alternative designs:
 > >
 > > https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png
 > 
 > I like the proposals… but I prefer the current one.  :-)
 > 
 > The way I see it, λ is all too common among functional programming
 > languages and tools.  So it’s both a rallying symbol and one that makes
 > your project indistinguishable from others in the same domain.

Ok, thanks for taking a look :)

Re: Logo proposal

[Christopher Lemmer Webber]

Ludovic Courtès writes:

> Hi sirgazil,
>
> sirgazil <sirgazil@zoho.com> skribis:
>
>> It's been a while since I designed the current Guile logo. This logo has what I called retracted and expanded forms. The former is the G in parenthesis, and the latter is the one in the website header bar.
>>
>> I'm fine with the retracted form, I actually like it, but everytime I see the expanded form, the overlapping of shapes bothers me. So I would like to propose two alternative designs:
>>
>> https://multimedialib.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/guile-logo-proposal-2020-01-24.png
>
> I like the proposals… but I prefer the current one.  :-)
>
> The way I see it, λ is all too common among functional programming
> languages and tools.  So it’s both a rallying symbol and one that makes
> your project indistinguishable from others in the same domain.
>
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.

I agree.  I thought the current Guile logo looks very nice and distinct
and lisp'y.

These days lispiness is a more defining feature than lambdaness, and
less advertised.