Give up Guile

Give up Guile

[Shenli Zhu]

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Hi Guile hackers,

After several day's investigating Guile, I decide to give up and return to
PLT-scheme/MIT-scheme. The experience is so frustrating.

Everyone knows a good debugger is very important, PLT-scheme have one-click
"Debug", and gdb has very simple commands, instrumenting Emacs function you
can trace it easily. But after read manual, trace elisp code and ask
question here, I still don't know how to set trap/breakpoint and trace the
code.(OK, I will read SICP chapter 4 and 5)

Anyway, I learn a lot when tracing elisp code. Thank you and bye.

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Re: Give up Guile

[Joel James Adamson]

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Shenli Zhu <zhushenli2@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Guile hackers,
>
> After several day's investigating Guile, I decide to give up and return to
> PLT-scheme/MIT-scheme. The experience is so frustrating.

And why are you telling us???

Joel
-- 
Joel J. Adamson
Servedio Lab
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

FSF Member #8164
http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj

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Re: Give up Guile

[Andy Wingo]

On Thu 02 Sep 2010 08:44, Shenli Zhu <zhushenli2@gmail.com> writes:

> After several day's investigating Guile, I decide to give up and
> return to PLT-scheme/MIT-scheme. The experience is so frustrating.

Heh, sorry it was frustrating to you.

Have fun with PLT and MIT scheme :)

Andy
-- 
http://wingolog.org/

Re: Give up Guile

[Marek Kubica]

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On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 14:14:24 -0400
Joel James Adamson <adamsonj@email.unc.edu> wrote:

> > After several day's investigating Guile, I decide to give up and
> > return to PLT-scheme/MIT-scheme. The experience is so frustrating.
> 
> And why are you telling us???

Obviously to make it better. While it might be a bit troll-ish, all
critique holds some truth and is an occasion to improve on.

regards,
Marek

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Re: Give up Guile

[Linas Vepstas]

On 2 September 2010 10:44, Shenli Zhu <zhushenli2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Everyone knows a good debugger is very important, PLT-scheme have one-click
> "Debug",

Can someone describe what it is that the PLT/MIT scheme debuggers do?
Are any of these portable to guile?  If not, why not .. license incompatibility?
Or are they just too wedded to internal implementation?

Some people seem to really like debuggers, so it would be reasonable for guile
to have something at least passable.  (Personally, I rarely use debuggers, they
never seem worth the effort, and don't provide me with much insight, or make
anything easier. Maybe I think different than other people, or maybe I've never
used a good debugger before. But clearly, they can be important...)

> and gdb has very simple commands,

? What does gdb have to do with it? Last I looked, gdb and scheme were utterly
incompatible; am I missing something?

> instrumenting Emacs function you
> can trace it easily.

?What does emacs have to do with it?

--linas

Re: Give up Guile

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

Shenli Zhu <zhushenli2@gmail.com> writes:

> Everyone knows a good debugger is very important,

I’m not sure if you’ve seen that, but while Guile 1.9 doesn’t have
breakpoints yet, it does have debugging capabilities.  For instance,
here’s an interactive session showing the debugging REPL in 1.9.12:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
scheme@(guile-user)> (define (foo x) (/ 2 x))
scheme@(guile-user)> (foo 0)
<unnamed port>:8:17: In procedure /:
<unnamed port>:8:17: Numerical overflow
Entering a new prompt.  Type `,bt' for a backtrace or `,q' to continue.
scheme@(guile-user) [1]> ,bt
In current input:
     7:16  0 (foo 0)
scheme@(guile-user) [1]> ,proc
$1 = #<procedure foo (x)>
scheme@(guile-user) [1]> ,locals
  Local variables:
  $2 = x = 0
scheme@(guile-user) [1]> ,error
<unnamed port>:8:17: In procedure /:
<unnamed port>:8:17: Numerical overflow
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

There are other facilities, like procedure call tracing:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
scheme@(guile-user)> (define (fib n) (if (<= n 1) n (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2)))))
scheme@(guile-user)> ,trace (fib 3)
(fib 3)
|(fib 2)
||(fib 1)
||1
||(fib 0)
||0
|1
|(fib 1)
|1
2
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Just to illustrate that while debugging support in 1.9 isn’t perfect,
it’s not completely lacking either.  :-)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Give up Guile

[Joel James Adamson]

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Marek Kubica <marek@xivilization.net> writes:

> On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 14:14:24 -0400
> Joel James Adamson <adamsonj@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>
>> > After several day's investigating Guile, I decide to give up and
>> > return to PLT-scheme/MIT-scheme. The experience is so frustrating.
>> 
>> And why are you telling us???
>
> Obviously to make it better. While it might be a bit troll-ish, all
> critique holds some truth and is an occasion to improve on.

I definitely see that, however all he offered was negative criticism.
As I told the OP, if he wants a *particular user experience*  then he
should use the platform that specializes on and tries to deliver that
user experience.  Just saying "Guile sucks because I want PLT Scheme" is
not offering any improvements for Guile.

Joel

-- 
Joel J. Adamson
Servedio Lab
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

FSF Member #8164
http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj

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