Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[H. Dieter Wilhelm]

Hello Gnus

now it's the second time that I couldn't send a mail to (multiple) gmail
addresses.  I've received a mail from the provider 1and1.de's mail
delivery system saying "dieter@duenehof-wilhelm.de" is blocked from
gmail with authentication problems (SPF and DKIM).  I checked sending
with the webmailer of 1und1.de and there sending to (some) gmail
addresses worked and then - strangely - resending the very same
problematic mail from Gnus seems to have work!?

Do you know such things?

Thank you

      Dieter

PS: The other problem I've (sadly since using Gnus) is that it archives
messages only to a local archive folder and doesn't "direct" them to the
providers mail server's "sent box".

;; sending messages
(setq message-send-mail-function 'message-send-it
      smtpmail-smtp-service  587 ; 2018-03-05 587 for starttls; 1&1: 587
      smtpmail-smtp-user "dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de"
      smtpmail-smtp-server "smtp.1und1.de")

(setq gnus-gcc-mark-as-read t)


(The smtp password is stored in ~/.authinfo.gpg)

-- 
Best wishes
H. Dieter Wilhelm
Zwingenberg, Germany

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Manuel Giraud via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

"H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

> Hello Gnus
>
> now it's the second time that I couldn't send a mail to (multiple) gmail
> addresses.  I've received a mail from the provider 1and1.de's mail
> delivery system saying "dieter@duenehof-wilhelm.de" is blocked from
> gmail with authentication problems (SPF and DKIM).  I checked sending
> with the webmailer of 1und1.de and there sending to (some) gmail
> addresses worked and then - strangely - resending the very same
> problematic mail from Gnus seems to have work!?

Hi,

It looks like a greylisting behaviour: sending from the webmail puts you
in "ok" list for a certain time...  That being said, who knows what
google does with mails these days.

Maybe your providers is not configured the same between the webmail and
their SMTP access.  You could try to see if everything (SPF, DKIM,
DMARC) is in place by using a site such as https://www.mail-tester.com/
and sending a mail from Gnus there.
-- 
Manuel Giraud

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Colin Baxter]

>>>>> Manuel Giraud via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

    > "H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:
    >> Hello Gnus
    >> 
    >> now it's the second time that I couldn't send a mail to
    >> (multiple) gmail addresses.  I've received a mail from the
    >> provider 1and1.de's mail delivery system saying
    >> "dieter@duenehof-wilhelm.de" is blocked from gmail with
    >> authentication problems (SPF and DKIM).  I checked sending with
    >> the webmailer of 1und1.de and there sending to (some) gmail
    >> addresses worked and then - strangely - resending the very same
    >> problematic mail from Gnus seems to have work!?

    > Hi,

    > It looks like a greylisting behaviour: sending from the webmail
    > puts you in "ok" list for a certain time...  That being said, who
    > knows what google does with mails these days.

    > Maybe your providers is not configured the same between the
    > webmail and their SMTP access.  You could try to see if everything
    > (SPF, DKIM, DMARC) is in place by using a site such as
    > https://www.mail-tester.com/ and sending a mail from Gnus there.
    > -- Manuel Giraud

mail-tester is more than likely to verify your email address. A similar
thing happens to me if I try to email a google address. Google
automatically classes email from yandex as spam and will not forward it
to the intended recipient. There is nothing I can do about it except
perhaps to urge people not to use gmail. And of course that wont fly.

Best of luck.

Colin.

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[tomas]

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On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 06:13:39PM +0000, Colin Baxter wrote:

[...]
> mail-tester is more than likely to verify your email address. A similar
> thing happens to me if I try to email a google address. Google
> automatically classes email from yandex as spam and will not forward it
> to the intended recipient [...]

My observation is that they /do/ deliver the mail, but marked as spam.
So it's the user who misses it, because it is in the spam folder.

Combined with the fearmongering that the spam folder is full of Bad
Things which will eat your computer, they are causing the user to throw
away that mails.

This is a tad more insidious (what Shoshana Zuboff calls "Behavior
Modification").

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[H. Dieter Wilhelm]

Manuel Giraud <manuel@ledu-giraud.fr> writes:

> "H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:
>
>> Hello Gnus
>>
>> now it's the second time that I couldn't send a mail to (multiple) gmail
>> addresses.  I've received a mail from the provider 1and1.de's mail
>> delivery system saying "dieter@duenehof-wilhelm.de" is blocked from
>> gmail with authentication problems (SPF and DKIM).  I checked sending
>> with the webmailer of 1und1.de and there sending to (some) gmail
>> addresses worked and then - strangely - resending the very same
>> problematic mail from Gnus seems to have work!?

>
> Maybe your providers is not configured the same between the webmail and
> their SMTP access.  You could try to see if everything (SPF, DKIM,
> DMARC) is in place by using a site such as https://www.mail-tester.com/
> and sending a mail from Gnus there.

Thank you for your promising hint.  Not only for testing but I found
there also guidelines for configuring mail systems of providers!

           Dieter

PS: I found your mail just now in the SPAM folder :-/

-- 
Best wishes
H. Dieter Wilhelm
Zwingenberg, Germany

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Arash Esbati]

"H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

> PS: The other problem I've (sadly since using Gnus) is that it archives
> messages only to a local archive folder and doesn't "direct" them to the
> providers mail server's "sent box".

Does it help if you set 'gcc-self' in your group parameters?  Check here[1]
for details.

Best, Arash

Footnotes:
[1]  https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[H. Dieter Wilhelm]

Arash Esbati <arash@gnu.org> writes:

> "H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:
>
>> PS: The other problem I've (sadly since using Gnus) is that it archives
>> messages only to a local archive folder and doesn't "direct" them to the
>> providers mail server's "sent box".
>
> Does it help if you set 'gcc-self' in your group parameters?  Check here[1]
> for details.
> Footnotes:
> [1]  https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html

Thanks a lot Arash

It's working with ggc-self when I'm replying in a group buffers :-)

Now I've to figure out how to get automatically such a Gcc field when
I'm writing a new mail.

        Dieter

-- 
Best wishes
H. Dieter Wilhelm
Zwingenberg, Germany

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 23:55:48 +0100, "H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> said:

    Dieter> Arash Esbati <arash@gnu.org> writes:
    >> "H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:
    >> 
    >>> PS: The other problem I've (sadly since using Gnus) is that it archives
    >>> messages only to a local archive folder and doesn't "direct" them to the
    >>> providers mail server's "sent box".
    >> 
    >> Does it help if you set 'gcc-self' in your group parameters?  Check here[1]
    >> for details.
    >> Footnotes:
    >> [1]  https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Group-Parameters.html

    Dieter> Thanks a lot Arash

    Dieter> It's working with ggc-self when I'm replying in a group buffers :-)

    Dieter> Now I've to figure out how to get automatically such a Gcc field when
    Dieter> I'm writing a new mail.

You should be able to set `gnus-message-archive-group' to point at eg
an nnimap group (but Iʼve never tried it).

Robert
-- 

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Arash Esbati]

"H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

> It's working with ggc-self when I'm replying in a group buffers :-)
>
> Now I've to figure out how to get automatically such a Gcc field when
> I'm writing a new mail.

What did you set the gcc-self parameter, via the 'G p' or the 'G c'
command?  Try to set the `gnus-parameters', this is the example given in
the manual as a starting point:

(setq gnus-parameters
      '(("mail\\..*"
         (gnus-show-threads nil)
         (gnus-use-scoring nil)
         (gnus-summary-line-format
          "%U%R%z%I%(%[%d:%ub%-23,23f%]%) %s\n")
         (gcc-self . t)
         (display . all))

        ("^nnimap:\\(foo.bar\\)$"
         (to-group . "\\1"))

        ("mail\\.me"
         (gnus-use-scoring t))

        ("list\\..*"
         (total-expire . t)
         (broken-reply-to . t))))

Best, Arash

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Bob Newell]

> You should be able to set `gnus-message-archive-group' to point at eg
> an nnimap group (but Iʼve never tried it).

YMMV but this has long worked for me

    (setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnimap+imap.gmail.com:[Gmail]/Sent Mail")

however until you refresh the "Sent Mail" group you won't see the sent
mail in the group summary.

-- 
Bob Newell
Honolulu, Hawai`i

Via Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB.

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 17:03:44 -1000, Bob Newell <bobnewell@bobnewell.net> said:

    >> You should be able to set `gnus-message-archive-group' to point at eg
    >> an nnimap group (but Iʼve never tried it).

    Bob> YMMV but this has long worked for me

    Bob>     (setq gnus-message-archive-group "nnimap+imap.gmail.com:[Gmail]/Sent Mail")

    Bob> however until you refresh the "Sent Mail" group you won't see the sent
    Bob> mail in the group summary.

Gmail puts a copy of each sent message in "Sent" for me anyway, even
without a gcc header.

Robert
-- 

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[H. Dieter Wilhelm]

Arash Esbati <arash@gnu.org> writes:

> "H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:
>
>> It's working with ggc-self when I'm replying in a group buffers :-)
>>
>> Now I've to figure out how to get automatically such a Gcc field when
>> I'm writing a new mail.
>
> What did you set the gcc-self parameter, via the 'G p' or the 'G c'

In the beginning yes, now I've

(setq gnus-parameters
      '(("nnimap+1und1:INBOX"
         (gcc-self . "nnimap+1und1:Sent")
	 )))

and that works for INBOX replies. 

> command?  Try to set the `gnus-parameters', this is the example given in
> the manual as a starting point:
> (setq gnus-parameters
>       '(("mail\\..*"
>          (gnus-show-threads nil)
>          (gnus-use-scoring nil)
>          (gnus-summary-line-format
>           "%U%R%z%I%(%[%d:%ub%-23,23f%]%) %s\n")
>          (gcc-self . t)
>          (display . all))
>         ("^nnimap:\\(foo.bar\\)$"
>          (to-group . "\\1"))
>         ("mail\\.me"
>          (gnus-use-scoring t))
>
>         ("list\\..*"
>          (total-expire . t)
>          (broken-reply-to . t))))

Above configurations seem to apply when I'm "in" a respective group but
how can I set parameters when I'm in the Gnus' *Group* buffer and want
to write a new mail (m) or with C-x m from an arbitrary buffer?

So far I'm always getting

Gcc: nnfolder+archive:sent.2023-02

instead of

Gcc: nnimap+1und1:Sent

Thanks

        Dieter
-- 
Best wishes
H. Dieter Wilhelm
Zwingenberg, Germany

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Eric Abrahamsen]

"H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

> Arash Esbati <arash@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> "H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:
>>
>>> It's working with ggc-self when I'm replying in a group buffers :-)
>>>
>>> Now I've to figure out how to get automatically such a Gcc field when
>>> I'm writing a new mail.
>>
>> What did you set the gcc-self parameter, via the 'G p' or the 'G c'
>
> In the beginning yes, now I've
>
> (setq gnus-parameters
>       '(("nnimap+1und1:INBOX"
>          (gcc-self . "nnimap+1und1:Sent")
> 	 )))
>
> and that works for INBOX replies. 
>
>> command?  Try to set the `gnus-parameters', this is the example given in
>> the manual as a starting point:
>> (setq gnus-parameters
>>       '(("mail\\..*"
>>          (gnus-show-threads nil)
>>          (gnus-use-scoring nil)
>>          (gnus-summary-line-format
>>           "%U%R%z%I%(%[%d:%ub%-23,23f%]%) %s\n")
>>          (gcc-self . t)
>>          (display . all))
>>         ("^nnimap:\\(foo.bar\\)$"
>>          (to-group . "\\1"))
>>         ("mail\\.me"
>>          (gnus-use-scoring t))
>>
>>         ("list\\..*"
>>          (total-expire . t)
>>          (broken-reply-to . t))))
>
> Above configurations seem to apply when I'm "in" a respective group but
> how can I set parameters when I'm in the Gnus' *Group* buffer and want
> to write a new mail (m) or with C-x m from an arbitrary buffer?

In these cases you can put point on a group whose parameters you want to
apply, then use "C-u m" to start a new mail.

If this feels too awkward, you could also explore one of the third-party
packages for mail profiles: gnus-pers or gnus-alias, there might be
another one...

Re: Gnus: Blocked message to gmail addresses

[Arash Esbati]

"H. Dieter Wilhelm" <dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> writes:

> Above configurations seem to apply when I'm "in" a respective group but
> how can I set parameters when I'm in the Gnus' *Group* buffer and want
> to write a new mail (m) or with C-x m from an arbitrary buffer?
>
> So far I'm always getting
>
> Gcc: nnfolder+archive:sent.2023-02
>
> instead of
>
> Gcc: nnimap+1und1:Sent

The relevant part from the manual is this:

    All clauses that match the group name will be used, but the last
    setting “wins”. So if you have two clauses that both match the group
    name, and both set, say display, the last setting will override the
    first.

So depending on your setup, you could write:

    (setq gnus-parameters
          '((".*"
             (gcc-self . "nnimap+1und1:Sent"))

             (further refinements here)
             (...)))

And then you should also delete the part which is responsible for

    Gcc: nnfolder+archive:sent.2023-02

Best, Arash