From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: finger-pointer curser as default for mouse-face text
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:25:01 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <x5lldtrfv6.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m3oeipq2fp.fsf@kfs-l.imdomain.dk> (Kim F. Storm's message of "Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:00:26 +0200")
storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>>> If the time stamps for the clicks indeed come from the X server,
>>> then Kim's timed scheme would probably not be very susceptible to
>>> system load/traffic congestion effects.
>>
>> The problm with it is that it goes against what we're trying to do,
>> which is to get Emacs's UI in line with "what non-Emacs users
>> expect". I.e. such users will just do a simple click and expect it
>> to follow the link.
>
> Yes, that's what we are trying to achieve -- the fundamental problem
> we discuss here is actually how to recognize when the stuff is a
> link and when it is something else which has a mouse-face property.
>
> In the examples given until now, the non-links have the mouse-face
> on an overlay -- so maybe to fix would be to only follow link which
> have the mouse-face as a text property in the buffer.
It does not make sense to introduce an arbitrary inconsistency because
this would fix a problem with an arbitrary example that just happens
to exist with that sort of implementation by chance instead of
design. If we can come up with a useful strategy that has a
reasonable chance of not breaking more than it fixes, then
preview-latex will be the one that has to adapt. But just because
preview-latex is an example where things will break does not mean that
it is the only possible one.
> If we can safely differentiate between links and non-links I think a
> short click should follow the link (double-clicks typically don't
> make sense there anyway) and a long click should set point
Well, I happen to disagree, since following a link is the more time
consuming action, anyway, and people might be tempted to press until
the browser window appears.
In any case, neither option is the behavior that a user would guess
without being explicitly introduced to it. So we need to turn it off
by default, or give an explanatory message of some kind by default.
> Appended is a patch which uses get-text-property rather than
> get-char-property to ignore overlay mouse-face properties.
I firmly object to such a course. While we should not let ourselves
be influenced too much by that, with XEmacs there is not even a
distinction between overlays and text properties. The choice between
the two when using Emacs should depend _exclusively_ on whether you
need the association with the text or the buffer, and not on any
chance side effects introduced to accidentally work with some package.
>> And if you add to the equation the extra code and conceptual
>> complexity of using timing-dependent information, I find it ends up
>> a loser.
>
> I don't really want to add any message there -- if we leave the
> feature disabled by default, the users who turn it on doesn't need
> to be told how to get the alternative behaviour.
>
> If we turn on the feature by default, there should at least be some
> way to disable that message.
Sure.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-10-26 9:25 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 91+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <DNEMKBNJBGPAOPIJOOICAEKKCAAA.drew.adams@oracle.com>
2004-10-19 9:04 ` finger-pointer curser as default for mouse-face text Kim F. Storm
2004-10-19 15:31 ` Lennart Borgman
2004-10-19 16:12 ` Drew Adams
2004-10-21 13:56 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-21 14:47 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-21 16:03 ` Lennart Borgman
2004-10-23 4:48 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-24 12:42 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-24 12:59 ` Lennart Borgman
2004-10-24 19:40 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-24 20:06 ` Lennart Borgman
2004-10-25 13:13 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-24 13:10 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-24 19:59 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-26 9:04 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-26 17:05 ` Lennart Borgman
2004-10-24 22:31 ` Stefan
2004-10-25 7:22 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-25 11:47 ` Stefan
2004-10-25 12:51 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-25 13:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-10-25 14:52 ` Ralf Angeli
2004-10-25 15:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-10-25 15:18 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-25 15:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-10-26 9:00 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-26 9:25 ` David Kastrup [this message]
2004-10-26 12:23 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-26 18:55 ` Drew Adams
2004-10-26 21:06 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-26 21:54 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-27 2:15 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-10-27 12:52 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-27 13:02 ` Luc Teirlinck
2004-10-27 13:16 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-27 14:51 ` feature freeze (was: finger-pointer curser as default for mouse-face text) Reiner Steib
2004-10-27 15:15 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-27 15:15 ` feature freeze David Kastrup
2004-10-27 17:29 ` finger-pointer curser as default for mouse-face text Drew Adams
2004-10-28 14:05 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-27 17:35 ` Richard Stallman
2004-11-01 14:40 ` Karl Eichwalder
2004-11-01 15:44 ` Stefan
2004-11-02 14:08 ` Richard Stallman
2004-11-02 18:08 ` Karl Eichwalder
2004-11-02 21:51 ` Miles Bader
2004-11-02 23:41 ` Drew Adams
2004-11-02 23:53 ` Stefan
2004-11-03 1:27 ` incrementor-decrementor commands and bindings (was: finger-pointer curser as default for mouse-face text) Drew Adams
2004-11-03 7:51 ` incrementor-decrementor commands and bindings (was: finger-pointercurser " Stephan Stahl
2004-11-03 15:26 ` Drew Adams
2004-11-04 9:51 ` Richard Stallman
2004-11-03 1:34 ` finger-pointer curser as default for mouse-face text Miles Bader
2004-11-03 9:31 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-11-03 9:26 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-11-03 10:20 ` David Kastrup
2004-11-03 17:04 ` Richard Stallman
2004-11-03 9:11 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-11-03 17:03 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-27 17:34 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-27 10:49 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-27 12:24 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-27 13:03 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-10-27 13:18 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-28 2:27 ` Miles Bader
2004-10-27 7:22 ` Kai Grossjohann
2004-10-27 7:35 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-27 12:32 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-28 6:24 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-27 10:47 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-26 9:05 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-25 8:31 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-25 10:01 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-25 12:32 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-26 9:05 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-25 13:13 ` Richard Stallman
2004-10-21 14:09 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-21 14:42 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-21 15:21 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-21 19:55 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-21 20:09 ` Drew Adams
2004-10-21 21:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2004-10-21 22:09 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-22 9:10 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-22 12:45 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-22 15:03 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-22 15:56 ` David Kastrup
2004-10-17 19:27 Drew Adams
2004-10-18 11:19 ` Kim F. Storm
2004-10-18 13:59 ` Richard Stallman
2004-12-07 13:16 ` Per Abrahamsen
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