From: Ron Ross <ronross@colba.net>
Cc: Peter Flynn <peter@silmaril.ie>,
rms@gnu.org, lenst@lysator.liu.se, keichwa@gmx.net,
no-spam@cua.dk, psgml-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
mvidner@suse.cz, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Pavel@Janik.cz,
kevinr@ihs.com
Subject: Re: Re: Key sequence C-c C-f C-e uses invalid prefix characters
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:34:04 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <wk1y4gte37.fsf@colba.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200212162248.gBGMm2m00520@rum.cs.yale.edu> ("Stefan Monnier"'s message of "Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:48:02 -0500")
"Stefan Monnier" <monnier+gnu/emacs/pretest@rum.cs.yale.edu> writes:
>> Richard Stallman wrote:
>> > Dave Love wrote something earlier about including PSGML in the Emacs
>> > distribution. I don't know the status of this. But it could either be
>> > as a replacement of the current sgml-mode or in addition to it.
>>
>> Replacement. I've been advocating this ever since psgml reached stable
>> *years* ago. sgml-mode alone is useless and vastly confusing for the
>> beginner, as it precisely does *NOT* implement SGML editing, only the
>> recognition of pointy brackets -- useful 15 years ago but not now!
>
> Last I heard (and that was before Dave's patches were incorporated),
> PSGML did not deal well at all with the situation where the DTD is
> unknown, which happens to be the standard case for me. This is
> why I spent some time improving sgml-mode.
> I believe that Dave's patches do bring PSGML to the point where it
> is about as good as sgml-mode when editing text without DTD, so maybe
> it is now good enough to replace sgml-mode.
I must agree with Peter Flynn and question whether Emacs' default
*sgml*-mode be one that functions /a priori/ without a DTD. It's almost
a contradiction in terms.
>
>> Please. In perpetuating sgml-mode we are making the Emacs distro look
>> very silly.
>
> Given the amount of complaint about PSGML "not indenting and not
> highlighting" we have seen on gnu.emacs.help I'd say that the lack
> of DTD-less support has been a problem for a long time now.
> Yes, PSGML should be included in Emacs, and as soon as it truly
> works as well (no matter how poor that is) as sgml-mode in
> DTD-less settings, we can and should replace sgml-mode with PSGML.
>
> But the DTD-less setting is very important.
The indentation and syntax-highlighting issue should really be
distinguished from the DTD issue, which in turn covers the separate
issues of working without a DTD and working with the new XML apparatus
(schemas and namespaces) related to DTDs.
DTD-less editing seems to me to be specific to a small subset of XML
files. As long as we are considering a consolidation of markup language
support in Emacs, perhaps psgml could become the default SGML/XML mode,
and then another mode - whether derived from psgml or from the current
sgml packages - could be made a available for DTD-less editing
(something like "sgml/xml-lite"). The elisp namespace problem would then
be solved by leaving psgml with the "sgml/xml"-prefixed symbols and then
developing a new namespace for the qndml (quick-n-diry-ml-mode ;-).
Ron
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-12-17 23:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <m3ofieak95.fsf@Janik.cz>
[not found] ` <5x3czq4lzb.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk>
[not found] ` <m3664m4ie3.fsf@Janik.cz>
[not found] ` <200202271030.MAA22372@is.elta.co.il>
[not found] ` <m3g03mabog.fsf@Janik.cz>
[not found] ` <5x8z9e5ymx.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk>
[not found] ` <m3zo1u5d44.fsf@Janik.cz>
[not found] ` <5xpu2q2aof.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk>
[not found] ` <200203010011.g210BRc05072@rum.cs.yale.edu>
2002-12-10 7:05 ` Key sequence C-c C-f C-e uses invalid prefix characters Karl Eichwalder
2002-12-10 13:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-12-10 18:27 ` Kevin Rodgers
2002-12-11 17:44 ` Richard Stallman
2002-12-12 3:08 ` Galen Boyer
2002-12-11 17:44 ` Richard Stallman
2002-12-12 6:34 ` Karl Eichwalder
2002-12-12 6:57 ` Miles Bader
2002-12-12 7:53 ` Karl Eichwalder
2002-12-12 20:32 ` Kevin Rodgers
2002-12-13 18:22 ` Lennart Staflin
2002-12-14 15:15 ` Felix Gatzemeier
2002-12-15 7:28 ` Karl Eichwalder
2002-12-16 16:42 ` Richard Stallman
2002-12-15 23:39 ` Richard Stallman
2002-12-16 22:07 ` Peter Flynn
2002-12-16 22:48 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-12-17 23:34 ` Ron Ross [this message]
2003-01-11 20:10 ` [Psgml-devel] " Stefan Monnier
2003-01-12 0:53 ` Peter Flynn
2002-12-18 0:34 ` Peter Flynn
2002-12-18 9:10 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-12-18 22:32 ` [Psgml-devel] " Peter Flynn
2002-12-19 22:52 ` Dave Love
2003-01-12 4:06 ` [Psgml-devel] " Miles Bader
2003-01-12 14:11 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-01-12 14:29 ` Peter Flynn
2003-01-12 16:25 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-01-12 23:25 ` Peter Flynn
2003-01-13 12:33 ` Robert J. Chassell
2003-01-14 6:02 ` Karl Eichwalder
2003-01-15 22:57 ` Peter Flynn
2003-01-15 23:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2003-01-16 21:00 ` [Psgml-devel] " Peter Flynn
2003-01-17 12:42 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-12-19 22:50 ` Dave Love
2002-12-31 8:00 ` Adding PSGML to the Emacs CVS (Re: Key sequence C-c C-f C-e uses invalid prefix characters) Karl Eichwalder
2003-01-02 18:39 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-11 19:53 ` Stefan Monnier
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