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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
Cc: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 19:40:53 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <jwvwn8mqhu8.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <875yg6qtbl.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Wed,  26 Oct 2022 19:27:10 +0000")

>>>> Do we really want to rely on the package spec for that?
>>> It seems the easiest way to share this information.  Do you have a
>>> different idea?
>>
>> Yes: use the `elpa-admin.el` code to compute that info :-)
>
> It might be possible to use the "previous-revision" VC method to step
> through the history to find the same information too... I would prefer
> that to avoid a strict Git dependency.

That can work when there's a single line of development.  Once you throw
merges into the mix, you'd have to reproduce exactly the algorithm used
by Git, which can become quite challenging.

To be honest, at this point I consider non-Git VCS a bit like XEmacs:
they sure have some really interesting technical characteristics yet
trying to support them is counter-productive.
[ I do hope Git will be replaced by something better, of course, but
  Hg and Brz have already proved they're not Git's successor.  ]


        Stefan




  reply	other threads:[~2022-10-26 23:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 345+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <164484721900.31751.1453162457552427931@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org>
     [not found] ` <20220214140020.04438C00891@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org>
2022-02-14 16:20   ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Stefan Monnier
2022-02-14 20:57     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-14 21:25       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-14 23:44         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-15  2:58           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-15 17:13             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-15 18:34               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-16 22:49                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-17  2:56                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-17  9:21                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-19 16:28                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-19 18:35                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-19 20:15                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-18  8:57                     ` Augusto Stoffel
2022-02-18 14:49                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-08 15:47     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-08 15:58       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-08 16:20         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-09 14:21           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-09 14:34             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-09 14:38               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-09 15:17                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-10  8:01                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-10 11:06                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-13 16:37                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-15 20:43                         ` Fetching or installing package dev source from VCS: names Richard Stallman
2022-10-16  8:31                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-18 12:05                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-19  7:04                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 12:12                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-21 19:39                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-15 20:43                         ` package-contact-maintainer Richard Stallman
2022-10-16  8:35                           ` package-contact-maintainer Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-16  9:19                             ` package-contact-maintainer Stefan Kangas
2022-10-16 11:02                               ` package-contact-maintainer Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-15 20:43                         ` Fetching or installing package dev source from VCS: manual style Richard Stallman
2022-10-16 13:30                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-16 19:47                             ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-10-16 22:33                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17 22:27                                 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-10-20 16:46                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-21 17:44                                     ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-10-21 19:19                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-18 12:04                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-18 14:03                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-19  6:58                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 11:13                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-21 22:11                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-23 19:11                                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-23 19:11                                     ` Multiple index entries Richard Stallman
2022-10-23 19:11                                     ` "Package from Source" Richard Stallman
2022-10-24 16:27                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 19:18                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-23 19:11                                     ` Installation from ELPA Richard Stallman
2022-10-23 19:14                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-24 19:30                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-24 13:19                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-28 21:57                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-18 12:05                             ` Fetching or installing package dev source from VCS: manual style Richard Stallman
2022-10-18 15:04                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-19  7:02                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-16 22:18                         ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17  5:25                           ` Stefan Kangas
2022-10-17 12:16                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-17 17:21                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17 21:41                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-18 20:45                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-18 21:43                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-18 20:43                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-18 21:40                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-19  7:08                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 12:19                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-19 12:29                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 13:15                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-21 21:58                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-21 22:34                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-22 10:45                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-22 14:53                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-22 15:06                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-23 11:32                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-24 13:00                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-24 15:35                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-24 20:21                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-24 20:34                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-24 23:57                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26  7:19                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-09 23:14             ` Tim Cross
2022-10-08 16:35         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-08 17:18           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-08 19:02         ` Tim Cross
2022-10-09 12:38           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-09 21:36             ` Tim Cross
2022-10-10 22:01           ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-15 15:52       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-15 16:22         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-15 17:14           ` Sean Whitton
2022-10-17 12:17             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-16  7:10           ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2022-10-16  8:15             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-16  9:29               ` tomas
2022-10-16 10:31                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-16 11:32                   ` tomas
2022-10-16 22:22           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17  6:12             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-17  6:27               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17  6:57                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-17 17:23                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17 21:44                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-18 20:45                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 17:02                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-19 17:06                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-24 19:34                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-20 16:01                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-22 19:59                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-23  9:04                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-25 20:13                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-26  7:11                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 12:00                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26 15:28                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:36                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26 18:48                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:58                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26 19:27                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 23:40                                             ` Stefan Monnier [this message]
2022-11-01 16:46                                               ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-01 17:13                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-01 17:58                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-01 18:35                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-01 18:51                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-01 19:04                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 19:14                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-01 19:26                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-01 20:26                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 22:19                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-02  1:23                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-02  1:45                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-02  8:01                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-02 12:49                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-02 14:44                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03  3:18                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-03 14:10                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-05  3:13                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-02  3:32                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-02  8:13                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2022-11-02  3:25                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-02 10:18                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-02 12:45                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-02 13:19                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-02 13:00                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-02 13:16                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03  3:17                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-03 14:09                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-05  3:13                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-28 17:24                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-29 15:14                                               ` Merging feature/package+vc Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-29 15:45                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-29 15:39                                               ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Stefan Monnier
2022-10-29 16:00                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-29 16:57                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-30 13:06                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 14:00                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-30 14:15                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 14:36                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-30 14:51                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 14:59                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-30 17:58                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 22:08                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-04 18:01                                                                     ` feature/package-vc has been merged Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-04 19:12                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-05 11:13                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-05 16:43                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-05 17:22                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 11:43                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 12:31                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 15:28                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 15:37                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 15:58                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 16:06                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 16:42                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 17:05                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 17:31                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 17:37                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 18:35                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 19:03                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-07  8:42                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07 12:07                                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-07 16:58                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07 17:07                                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-07 17:57                                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-07 18:10                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07 18:19                                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-08 20:15                                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-08 21:35                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09  8:15                                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 12:41                                                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-09 17:15                                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 17:49                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 18:00                                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 18:33                                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 19:04                                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 19:53                                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 20:32                                                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 21:21                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 21:33                                                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 15:23                                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 15:56                                                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 17:29                                                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 17:57                                                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 20:05                                                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 22:09                                                                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 23:23                                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-17 16:41                                                                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 23:26                                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 19:05                                                                                                                             ` Updating the "ELPA Protocol" Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-15 19:58                                                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-15 20:41                                                                                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-16  7:35                                                                                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16  7:54                                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-16 15:07                                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 15:32                                                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 16:46                                                                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 16:59                                                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 17:42                                                                                                                                           ` Jonas Bernoulli
2022-11-16 18:04                                                                                                                                   ` Jonas Bernoulli
2022-11-16 19:20                                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-18 14:20                                                                                                                                       ` Jonas Bernoulli
2022-11-07  1:30                                                                                                   ` feature/package-vc has been merged Stefan Monnier
2022-11-07  3:29                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-07  4:43                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-07 11:48                                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-08  8:54                                                                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-08 21:57                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-08  7:15                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-08  8:46                                                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-08 20:21                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  6:51                                                                                                         ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09  7:07                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  7:23                                                                                                             ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09  8:27                                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 11:03                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 17:45                                                                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 20:18                                                                                                                     ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 20:39                                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-11  4:34                                                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-11  6:43                                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-12  3:36                                                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-11 18:44                                                                                                                         ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-11 19:46                                                                                                                           ` tomas
2022-11-12  3:38                                                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-12  6:30                                                                                                                             ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12  8:10                                                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-12 13:03                                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12 13:03                                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12  7:45                                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-12 13:01                                                                                                                             ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12 13:15                                                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-12 13:41                                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12 14:15                                                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-12 13:23                                                                                                                               ` Po Lu
2022-11-12 13:40                                                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 14:34                                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-13 15:16                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-13 18:18                                                                                                                                     ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-13 15:53                                                                                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 17:56                                                                                                                                     ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-13 18:08                                                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 20:20                                                                                                                                         ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-13 20:54                                                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 22:19                                                                                                                                             ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-14  5:37                                                                                                                                               ` tomas
2022-11-09  6:44                                                                                                   ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09  7:02                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  7:19                                                                                                       ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09  8:26                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 10:52                                                                                                           ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 17:41                                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 20:16                                                                                                               ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 21:10                                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 23:40                                                                                                                   ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-10  0:11                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-10  7:23                                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-09 17:44                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 20:05                                                                                                               ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 20:45                                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 23:33                                                                                                                   ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-10  0:03                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 17:25                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 17:35                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 18:22                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-05 23:00                                                                       ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-06  0:23                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-06  8:15                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07  0:58                                                                             ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-07  8:30                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07 23:17                                                                                 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-08 21:53                                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  0:44                                                                                     ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-09  7:09                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  8:54                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 23:52                                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-10 18:18                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-10 18:26                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-10 19:44                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-10 18:29                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-12  0:32                                                                                               ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-12  7:59                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-12 22:57                                                                                                   ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-13  0:01                                                                                                     ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-13  1:38                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-13 21:42                                                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-13  3:00                                                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-13 22:20                                                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-13  7:01                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 22:11                                                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-14 11:41                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13  0:16                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 15:55                                                           ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-31  8:23                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-31 11:56                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-31 14:23                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:22                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:40                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26 18:41                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:59                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 16:46                                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-01 18:27                                     ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VACS Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-01 19:06                                     ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 16:46                                   ` Not a prefix arg Richard Stallman
2022-11-01 11:10                                 ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Richard Stallman
2022-11-01 14:54                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03  3:17                                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-03 15:18                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03 18:39                                         ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VACS Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-05  3:14                                         ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Richard Stallman
2022-11-05  7:15                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-05 11:14                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-05 11:21                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-05 12:33                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-05 16:45                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03  3:17                                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-25 20:13                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-26  6:49                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-23 17:04     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 18:23     ` Jonas Bernoulli
2022-11-16 20:01       ` Philip Kaludercic

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