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From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
	rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
	Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
Subject: Re: Updating the "ELPA Protocol"
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2022 23:54:45 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CADwFkmmtJoubgA36qt3Dx0y5ZC+ei75jPM6BiuTz_P-FEodyRg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87mt8r8i7j.fsf@posteo.net>

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> How about using something like Debian's transitional packages, where you
>> replace the old package with an empty package that just depends on the
>> new package?  Would that work?
>
> It might, but then the user is required to remove the old package and
> select the new one, right?

AFAIU, the new renamed package will be automatically installed as a
dependency of the new version so in that sense I don't think the user
would need to do anything.  The user will potentially have to update
their customization, in case the package prefix changes and symbols are
renamed.

The user will also have to manually delete the old package and manually
select the new one at some point.  This should merely be a cleanup
though, and in theory the user can continue as before as long as the
transitional package remains in the archive.



  reply	other threads:[~2022-11-16  7:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 345+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <164484721900.31751.1453162457552427931@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org>
     [not found] ` <20220214140020.04438C00891@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org>
2022-02-14 16:20   ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Stefan Monnier
2022-02-14 20:57     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-14 21:25       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-14 23:44         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-15  2:58           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-15 17:13             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-15 18:34               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-16 22:49                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-17  2:56                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-17  9:21                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-19 16:28                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-19 18:35                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-02-19 20:15                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-02-18  8:57                     ` Augusto Stoffel
2022-02-18 14:49                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-08 15:47     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-08 15:58       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-08 16:20         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-09 14:21           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-09 14:34             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-09 14:38               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-09 15:17                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-10  8:01                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-10-10 11:06                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-13 16:37                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-15 20:43                         ` Fetching or installing package dev source from VCS: names Richard Stallman
2022-10-16  8:31                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-18 12:05                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-19  7:04                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 12:12                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-21 19:39                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-15 20:43                         ` package-contact-maintainer Richard Stallman
2022-10-16  8:35                           ` package-contact-maintainer Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-16  9:19                             ` package-contact-maintainer Stefan Kangas
2022-10-16 11:02                               ` package-contact-maintainer Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-15 20:43                         ` Fetching or installing package dev source from VCS: manual style Richard Stallman
2022-10-16 13:30                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-16 19:47                             ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-10-16 22:33                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17 22:27                                 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-10-20 16:46                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-21 17:44                                     ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-10-21 19:19                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-18 12:04                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-18 14:03                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-19  6:58                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 11:13                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-21 22:11                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-23 19:11                                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-23 19:11                                     ` Multiple index entries Richard Stallman
2022-10-23 19:11                                     ` "Package from Source" Richard Stallman
2022-10-24 16:27                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 19:18                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-23 19:11                                     ` Installation from ELPA Richard Stallman
2022-10-23 19:14                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-24 19:30                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-24 13:19                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-28 21:57                                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-18 12:05                             ` Fetching or installing package dev source from VCS: manual style Richard Stallman
2022-10-18 15:04                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-19  7:02                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-16 22:18                         ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17  5:25                           ` Stefan Kangas
2022-10-17 12:16                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-17 17:21                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17 21:41                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-18 20:45                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-18 21:43                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-18 20:43                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-18 21:40                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-19  7:08                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 12:19                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-19 12:29                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 13:15                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-21 21:58                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-21 22:34                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-22 10:45                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-22 14:53                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-22 15:06                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-23 11:32                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-24 13:00                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-24 15:35                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-24 20:21                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-24 20:34                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-24 23:57                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26  7:19                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-09 23:14             ` Tim Cross
2022-10-08 16:35         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-08 17:18           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-08 19:02         ` Tim Cross
2022-10-09 12:38           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-09 21:36             ` Tim Cross
2022-10-10 22:01           ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-15 15:52       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-15 16:22         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-15 17:14           ` Sean Whitton
2022-10-17 12:17             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-16  7:10           ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2022-10-16  8:15             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-16  9:29               ` tomas
2022-10-16 10:31                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-16 11:32                   ` tomas
2022-10-16 22:22           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17  6:12             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-17  6:27               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17  6:57                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-10-17 17:23                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-17 21:44                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-18 20:45                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-19 17:02                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-19 17:06                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-24 19:34                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-20 16:01                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-22 19:59                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-23  9:04                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-25 20:13                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-26  7:11                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 12:00                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26 15:28                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:36                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26 18:48                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:58                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26 19:27                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 23:40                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 16:46                                               ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-01 17:13                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-01 17:58                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-01 18:35                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-01 18:51                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-01 19:04                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 19:14                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-01 19:26                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-01 20:26                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 22:19                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-02  1:23                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-02  1:45                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-02  8:01                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-02 12:49                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-02 14:44                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03  3:18                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-03 14:10                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-05  3:13                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-02  3:32                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-02  8:13                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2022-11-02  3:25                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-02 10:18                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2022-11-02 12:45                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-02 13:19                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-02 13:00                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-02 13:16                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03  3:17                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-03 14:09                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-05  3:13                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-28 17:24                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-29 15:14                                               ` Merging feature/package+vc Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-29 15:45                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-29 15:39                                               ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Stefan Monnier
2022-10-29 16:00                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-29 16:57                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-30 13:06                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 14:00                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-30 14:15                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 14:36                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-30 14:51                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 14:59                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-30 17:58                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 22:08                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-04 18:01                                                                     ` feature/package-vc has been merged Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-04 19:12                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-05 11:13                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-05 16:43                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-05 17:22                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 11:43                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 12:31                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 15:28                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 15:37                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 15:58                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 16:06                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 16:42                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 17:05                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 17:31                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 17:37                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-06 18:35                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-06 19:03                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-07  8:42                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07 12:07                                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-07 16:58                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07 17:07                                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-07 17:57                                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-07 18:10                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07 18:19                                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-08 20:15                                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-08 21:35                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09  8:15                                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 12:41                                                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-09 17:15                                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 17:49                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 18:00                                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 18:33                                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 19:04                                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 19:53                                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 20:32                                                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 21:21                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 21:33                                                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 15:23                                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 15:56                                                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 17:29                                                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 17:57                                                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 20:05                                                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 22:09                                                                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 23:23                                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-17 16:41                                                                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 23:26                                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 19:05                                                                                                                             ` Updating the "ELPA Protocol" Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-15 19:58                                                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-15 20:41                                                                                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-16  7:35                                                                                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16  7:54                                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas [this message]
2022-11-16 15:07                                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 15:32                                                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 16:46                                                                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-16 16:59                                                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 17:42                                                                                                                                           ` Jonas Bernoulli
2022-11-16 18:04                                                                                                                                   ` Jonas Bernoulli
2022-11-16 19:20                                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-18 14:20                                                                                                                                       ` Jonas Bernoulli
2022-11-07  1:30                                                                                                   ` feature/package-vc has been merged Stefan Monnier
2022-11-07  3:29                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-07  4:43                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-07 11:48                                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-08  8:54                                                                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-08 21:57                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-08  7:15                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-08  8:46                                                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-08 20:21                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  6:51                                                                                                         ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09  7:07                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  7:23                                                                                                             ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09  8:27                                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 11:03                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 17:45                                                                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 20:18                                                                                                                     ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 20:39                                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-11  4:34                                                                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-11  6:43                                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-12  3:36                                                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-11 18:44                                                                                                                         ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-11 19:46                                                                                                                           ` tomas
2022-11-12  3:38                                                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-12  6:30                                                                                                                             ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12  8:10                                                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-12 13:03                                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12 13:03                                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12  7:45                                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-12 13:01                                                                                                                             ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12 13:15                                                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-12 13:41                                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-12 14:15                                                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-12 13:23                                                                                                                               ` Po Lu
2022-11-12 13:40                                                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 14:34                                                                                                                                 ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-13 15:16                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-13 18:18                                                                                                                                     ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-13 15:53                                                                                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 17:56                                                                                                                                     ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-13 18:08                                                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 20:20                                                                                                                                         ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-13 20:54                                                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 22:19                                                                                                                                             ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-14  5:37                                                                                                                                               ` tomas
2022-11-09  6:44                                                                                                   ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09  7:02                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  7:19                                                                                                       ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09  8:26                                                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 10:52                                                                                                           ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 17:41                                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 20:16                                                                                                               ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 21:10                                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 23:40                                                                                                                   ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-10  0:11                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-10  7:23                                                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-09 17:44                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 20:05                                                                                                               ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-09 20:45                                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 23:33                                                                                                                   ` Björn Bidar
2022-11-10  0:03                                                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 17:25                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-09 17:35                                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 18:22                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-05 23:00                                                                       ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-06  0:23                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-06  8:15                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07  0:58                                                                             ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-07  8:30                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-07 23:17                                                                                 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-08 21:53                                                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  0:44                                                                                     ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-09  7:09                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09  8:54                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-09 23:52                                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-10 18:18                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-10 18:26                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-10 19:44                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-10 18:29                                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-12  0:32                                                                                               ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-12  7:59                                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-12 22:57                                                                                                   ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-13  0:01                                                                                                     ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-13  1:38                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-13 21:42                                                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-13  3:00                                                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2022-11-13 22:20                                                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-13  7:01                                                                                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13 22:11                                                                                                         ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2022-11-14 11:41                                                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-13  0:16                                                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-30 15:55                                                           ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-31  8:23                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-31 11:56                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-31 14:23                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:22                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:40                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-10-26 18:41                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-26 18:59                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 16:46                                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-01 18:27                                     ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VACS Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-01 19:06                                     ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Stefan Monnier
2022-11-01 16:46                                   ` Not a prefix arg Richard Stallman
2022-11-01 11:10                                 ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Richard Stallman
2022-11-01 14:54                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03  3:17                                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-11-03 15:18                                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03 18:39                                         ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VACS Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-05  3:14                                         ` feature/package+vc 04c4c578c7 3/4: Allow for packages to be installed directly from VCS Richard Stallman
2022-11-05  7:15                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-05 11:14                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-05 11:21                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-05 12:33                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-11-05 16:45                                                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-03  3:17                                   ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-25 20:13                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-10-26  6:49                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-10-23 17:04     ` Philip Kaludercic
2022-11-16 18:23     ` Jonas Bernoulli
2022-11-16 20:01       ` Philip Kaludercic

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