latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[Karl Eichwalder]

Please, add german quotation marks to latin-ltx.  Here is an example
text:

    ‚deutsche‘ „Anführungszeichen“

Here the assignments (sorry, I don't know how to edit latin-ltx to
provide a patch):

          \glq  = ‚
          \grq  = ‘
    \"` = \glqq = „
    \"` = \grqq = “

And now French quotations:

          \flq  = maybe ‹ ? (copied from sgml-input.el)
          \frq  = maybe 〉 ? (likewise, not symmetrical!)
    \"< = \flqq = « ?
    \"> = \frqq = » ?

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http://www.suse.de/~ke/                                  |      ,__o
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Re: latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[Karl Eichwalder]

Once again, I like to ask to add german and french quotation marks to
latin-ltx.  Here is a german example text:

    ‚deutsche‘ „Anführungszeichen“

Here comes my proposal (I don't know how to edit latin-ltx.el to provide
a patch):

          \glq  => ‚
          \grq  => ‘
    \"` = \glqq => „
    \"` = \grqq => “

French quotations:

          \flq  => ‹ 
          \frq  => ›    (dont confuse it with: 〉)
    \"< = \flqq => «
    \"> = \frqq => »

Also I like to propose to convert latin-ltx.el to UTF-8.

-- 
                                                         |      ,__o
                                                         |    _-\_<,
http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/                            |   (*)/'(*)

Re: latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[Reiner Steib]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2752 bytes --]

On Sun, May 02 2004, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

> Once again, I like to ask to add german and french quotation marks to
> latin-ltx.

I second that.  This has been asked in German editor newsgroups
several times.

> Here is a german example text:
>
>     ‚deutsche‘ „Anführungszeichen“
>
> Here comes my proposal (I don't know how to edit latin-ltx.el to provide
> a patch):
[...]
>     \"` = \glqq => „
>     \"` = \grqq => “

This is the same input string for both in the first column.

> French quotations:
>           \flq  => ‹ 
>           \frq  => ›    (dont confuse it with: 〉)
>     \"< = \flqq => «
>     \"> = \frqq => »

I've been using something similar for a while (using `quail-defrule').
After changing this for use in `latin-ltx.el', the relevant entries
are:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
 ;; Quotation marks:
 ;; LaTeX like...
 ("\\lq"   ?\‘)  ;; U+2018 : LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\\rq"   ?\’)  ;; U+2019 : RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\\glq"  ?\‚)  ;; U+201A : SINGLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK
 ("\\grq"  ?\‘)  ;; U+2018 : LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\\lqq"  ?\“)  ;; U+201C : LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\\rqq"  ?\”)  ;; U+201D : RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\\glqq" ?\„)  ;; U+201E : DOUBLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK
 ("\\grqq" ?\“)  ;; U+201C : LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\\flq"  ?\‹)  ;; U+2039
 ("\\frq"  ?\›)  ;; U+203A
 ("\\flqq" ?\«)  ;; U+00AB
 ("\\frqq" ?\»)  ;; U+00BB
 ;;
 ;; (""    ?\‛)  ;; U+201B mirrored 9
 ;; (""    ?\‟)  ;; U+201F mirrored 99
 ;;
 ;; babel-like...
 ;; (quote + char(s) for German)
 ("\","  ?\‚)  ;; U+201A : SINGLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK
 ("\",," ?\„)  ;; U+201E : DOUBLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK
 ("\"`"  ?\‘)  ;; U+2018 : LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\"'"  ?\’)  ;; U+2019 : RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\"``" ?\“)  ;; U+201C : LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\"''" ?\”)  ;; U+201D : RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("\"<"    ?\«)  ;; U+00AB
 ("\">"    ?\»)  ;; U+00BB
 ;; short versions:
 (",," ?\„) ;; U+201E : DOUBLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK
 ("``" ?\“) ;; U+201C : LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 ("''" ?\”) ;; U+201D : RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Attached is a gzipped patch against `latin-ltx.el'.  Maybe some of the
shorter input strings are discussible.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
2004-05-06  Reiner Steib  <Reiner.Steib@gmx.de>

	* quail/latin-ltx.el: Added quotation marks (including German and
	French).
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

[-- Attachment #2: German and French quotation marks --]
[-- Type: application/x-gzip, Size: 767 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 141 bytes --]

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Re: latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[David Kastrup]

Reiner Steib <reiner.steib@gmx.de> writes:

> On Sun, May 02 2004, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
> 
> > Once again, I like to ask to add german and french quotation marks to
> > latin-ltx.
> 
> I second that.  This has been asked in German editor newsgroups
> several times.

I find the "` "' "< "> bindings unfortunate: they are specific to the
german language options of babel and german.sty and impact the input
of " which is, AFAICS, otherwise not affected.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[Stefan Monnier]

> Once again, I like to ask to add german and french quotation marks to
> latin-ltx.  Here is a german example text:

Installed,


        Stefan

Re: latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[Stefan Monnier]

> I find the "` "' "< "> bindings unfortunate: they are specific to the
> german language options of babel and german.sty and impact the input
> of " which is, AFAICS, otherwise not affected.

Huh?  There's no "` nor "' nor "< nor "> binding.
There are only \"` and \"' and \"< and \"> bindings and there already were
\"FOO bindings, so I don't see what you're talking about.


        Stefan

Re: latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[David Kastrup]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> > I find the "` "' "< "> bindings unfortunate: they are specific to the
> > german language options of babel and german.sty and impact the input
> > of " which is, AFAICS, otherwise not affected.
> 
> Huh?  There's no "` nor "' nor "< nor "> binding.
> There are only \"` and \"' and \"< and \"> bindings and there already were
> \"FOO bindings, so I don't see what you're talking about.

>From the current, changed leim/quail/latin-ltx.el:

 ("\\glqq"  ?„) ("\"`"  ?„)
 ("\\grqq"  ?“) ("\"'"  ?“)
 ("\\flq" ?‹)
 ("\\frq" ?›)
 ("\\flqq" ?«) ("\"<" ?«)
 ("\\frqq" ?») ("\">" ?»)
 )

The last time I looked "\"`" was a string starting with a double
quote, not with a backslash.  To start with a backslash, you'd have
to write "\\\"`" to start the string off with a backslash.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[Stefan Monnier]

>> From the current, changed leim/quail/latin-ltx.el:

>  ("\\glqq"  ?„) ("\"`"  ?„)
>  ("\\grqq"  ?“) ("\"'"  ?“)
>  ("\\flq" ?‹)
>  ("\\frq" ?›)
>  ("\\flqq" ?«) ("\"<" ?«)
>  ("\\frqq" ?») ("\">" ?»)
>  )

> The last time I looked "\"`" was a string starting with a double
> quote, not with a backslash.  To start with a backslash, you'd have
> to write "\\\"`" to start the string off with a backslash.

Oops, that's a bug.


        Stefan

Re: latin-ltx.el: german and french quotation marks

[David Kastrup]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> >> From the current, changed leim/quail/latin-ltx.el:
> 
> >  ("\\glqq"  ?„) ("\"`"  ?„)
> >  ("\\grqq"  ?“) ("\"'"  ?“)
> >  ("\\flq" ?‹)
> >  ("\\frq" ?›)
> >  ("\\flqq" ?«) ("\"<" ?«)
> >  ("\\frqq" ?») ("\">" ?»)
> >  )
> 
> > The last time I looked "\"`" was a string starting with a double
> > quote, not with a backslash.  To start with a backslash, you'd have
> > to write "\\\"`" to start the string off with a backslash.
> 
> Oops, that's a bug.

No, it's clearly intentional.  After all, the convention of the
german babel option _is_ to have "` and "' be converted to German
quote characters.  It would be the right thing to do if not

a) non-Germans also tended to use the style
b) it did not actually shadow valid uses of "

The _right_ thing to do would be to _add_ a German-specific encoding
variant that would add _all_ shortcuts starting with " like "a "o "s
and of course also "` and "'.

Then German users could either work without the German-specific
shortcut sequences, or choose to use _all_ of them consistently.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum