From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [External] : Re: indent-tabs-mode default [was: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel]
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2021 11:35:41 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87tuiycr5e.fsf@yahoo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87y28al837.fsf@gmail.com> (Tim Cross's message of "Mon, 06 Sep 2021 12:22:36 +1000")
Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
> Changing defaults is going to be annoying for some, just as leaving them
> as is will continue to be annoying for others. In this case, it would
> appear the two groups are about evenly distributed, so either way, some
> proportion of users will be annoyed and using it as a reason to change
> or not change adds little.
>
> The question is really what would be the expected behaviour for new
> users? I don't know how to determine the right answer to that question
> or even if there is a right answer.
>
> The only thing which seems important really is how easily the new user
> can discover the right setting to get the behaviour they want and how
> easily that behaviour can be configured. From memory, that was not as
> straight-forward for a new user as it could be (but then again, for me,
> that was nearly 30 years ago and things have changed, so perhaps it is
> now easier than it once was. I clearly recall it taking some effort to
> get the behaviour I wanted when first starting with emacs wrt tabs v
> spaces).
>
> I also don't think all defaults are equal and should not be treated as
> such. Some defaults feel somewhat arbitrary - indent-tab-mode feels like
> one of these. However, other defaults are more critical as they can
> impact on more subtle or advanced behaviour and selecting the right
> default may impact on how easily users discover the benefits of that
> advanced behaviour.
I think the difference between "new users" and "old users" is that old
users already exist, while the "new users" alluded to here do not exist.
An "annoyance" to these "new users" is an annoyance to ghosts -- to
people who have never seen, heard of, or used Emacs.
Further, for as long as I can remember, there has been a section in the
Emacs manual named "Tabs vs. Spaces". Any Emacs user, who has
presumably read the manual before using Emacs, should know about the
option indent-tabs-mode.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-09-06 3:35 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-09-03 17:49 indent-tabs-mode default [was: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel] Drew Adams
2021-09-03 18:35 ` Kaushal Modi
2021-09-04 2:21 ` Po Lu
2021-09-04 4:16 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-04 11:32 ` Po Lu
2021-09-04 14:44 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-09-05 0:37 ` Po Lu
2021-09-05 0:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-05 3:20 ` Po Lu
2021-09-05 3:37 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 5:39 ` Po Lu
2021-09-05 7:09 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-05 19:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-06 1:19 ` Po Lu
2021-09-06 2:22 ` Tim Cross
2021-09-06 3:35 ` Po Lu [this message]
2021-09-06 4:11 ` Tim Cross
2021-09-06 5:40 ` Po Lu
2021-09-06 6:40 ` Tim Cross
2021-09-06 7:57 ` Po Lu
2021-09-06 8:13 ` Tim Cross
2021-09-06 11:13 ` Po Lu
2021-09-07 21:47 ` chad
2021-09-06 23:32 ` Drew Adams
2021-09-04 2:39 ` Tim Cross
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-08-26 16:20 Gitlab Migration Daniel Fleischer
2021-08-26 17:24 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-08-27 7:00 ` Daniel Fleischer
2021-08-27 11:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-27 14:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-27 21:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-28 6:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-29 2:27 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-30 2:58 ` Richard Stallman
2021-08-30 12:20 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-31 3:09 ` Richard Stallman
2021-08-31 11:43 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-31 16:21 ` John Yates
2021-08-31 16:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-31 19:17 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-08-31 19:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-01 11:35 ` John Yates
2021-09-02 3:38 ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-02 19:02 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-03 6:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-03 6:12 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-03 10:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-06 3:06 ` indent-tabs-mode default [was: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel] Richard Stallman
2021-09-06 12:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-06 23:32 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-09-06 23:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
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