From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
To: xfq <xfq.free@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347: * doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros rather than special forms. (Bug#13853)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:00:30 +0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87obd8rnk1.fsf@yandex.ru> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAAF+z6GcOUFQ7k=c8VOMdsGR4N4iGrkpJnUPjbjzdO58bM-RzQ@mail.gmail.com> (xfq's message of "Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:00:06 +0800")
xfq <xfq.free@gmail.com> writes:
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Leo Liu <sdl.web@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2013-04-21 20:01 +0800, Xue Fuqiao wrote:
>>> * doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun,
>>> simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review,
>>> save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros rather than
>>> special forms. (Bug#13853)
>>
>> "special form" is a better term than "macro". It signals the reader that
>> the form has special evaluation rule. How the special form is
>> implemented is details readers need not care about. Please don't change
>> a clearly written text to worse.
>
> Thanks for your attention. A "special form" is a primitive function,
> and a "macro" is a construct defined in Lisp. Both of them are
> mentioned in this manual (or tutorial):
>
> (info "(eintr) Lisp macro")
> (info "(eintr) Complications")
Indeed, there is some confusion in terminology there.
(info "(eintr) Complications") says:
The second complication occurs because some functions are unusual and
do not work in the usual manner. Those that don't are called "special
forms".
That means, any "unusual" function is a special form, including
macros.
This page, however (I couldn't find it through the Info interface),
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Special-Forms.html
says that only primitive functions can be called special forms.
I believe that this conflict should be resolved in favor of the former,
and this opinion is supported by this sentence, removed in r112347:
Because @code{defun} does not evaluate its arguments in the usual way,
it is called a @dfn{special form}.
> I think cross reference(s) to the `Lisp macro' node is a better than
> revert this change.
IOW, the change should be reverted, and the manual should be updated not
to state that special forms are necessarily primitive functions.
--Dmitry
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-04-21 14:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 25+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <E1UTtCq-0003Tj-Lr@vcs.savannah.gnu.org>
2013-04-21 12:39 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347: * doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros rather than special forms. (Bug#13853) Leo Liu
2013-04-21 13:00 ` xfq
2013-04-21 14:00 ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2013-04-21 16:55 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347: *doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros rather thanspecial " Drew Adams
2013-04-21 17:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-04-21 17:55 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-04-22 1:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-04-21 18:04 ` Drew Adams
2013-04-21 18:57 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-04-21 19:40 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347:*doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros ratherthanspecial " Drew Adams
2013-04-22 1:21 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-04-22 1:35 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347:*doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi(defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macrosratherthanspecial " Drew Adams
2013-04-22 2:00 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347: *doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros rather thanspecial " Dmitry Gutov
2013-04-21 18:07 ` /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r112347: * doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (defcustom, defun, simplified-beginning-of-buffer, defvar, Building Robots, Review, save-excursion): `defun' and `defcustom' are now macros rather than special " Glenn Morris
2013-04-21 22:54 ` xfq
2013-04-22 17:02 ` Glenn Morris
2013-04-23 0:47 ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-04-23 16:42 ` Glenn Morris
2013-04-23 22:28 ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-04-22 3:17 ` Leo Liu
2013-04-22 10:31 ` xfq
2013-04-22 14:11 ` Leo Liu
2013-04-22 14:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-04-22 15:37 ` Leo Liu
2013-04-22 14:47 ` Stefan Monnier
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