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From: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com>
Cc: rms@gnu.org,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Instead of pcase
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 13:36:46 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87fs15kkk1.fsf@yahoo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ab500e97-7fc5-b733-9d41-ec08f92935cd@gmail.com> (Jim Porter's message of "Thu, 16 Nov 2023 10:22:12 -0800")

Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com> writes:

> At a higher level, I'd say it's worth considering the audience we want
> to focus on. For veteran (Emacs) Lisp programmers, new additions like
> 'pcase' can increase the difficulty of reading new Elisp code: your
> prior mastery of the language isn't any good when you hit that
> "(pcase". However, many programmers today don't know Lisp, of any
> variety. For people like that, learning to contribute to Emacs means
> learning from the very beginning.

That's as may be, but pcase remains a hurdle all Emacs Lisp programmers
will have to surmount, if they are to understand a program which employs
it.  Much as the linguistically inclined enjoy acquiring an abstruse
language, so certain programmers may relish the occasion to acquire a
new and intricate construct.  Nevertheless, and your singular experience
notwithstanding, other programmers are loath to devote their time to
such monotonous pursuits--whether they are learning the language from a
blank slate or with a solid basis in the form of proficiency in other
dialects of Lisp--and they are a sizable portion of our userbase as
well.  All these programmers share a common ground that excludes pcase
and presently destructuring variable binding, so I don't think there are
many who would gainsay that the introduction of a simpler construct to
the same end is a win-win.

Now for some quibbling: there is no "audience" for whom our design
choices are made; rather a corpus of users who are enjoined to read and
write the same language.  It is to everyone's advantage if the users
with such zeal as to memorize and enjoy these ivory tower delights exert
themselves slightly, in order for others to read their code also.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-11-17  5:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 342+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-11-16  3:04 Instead of pcase Richard Stallman
2023-11-16  7:37 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-11-16 17:18   ` T.V Raman
2023-11-16 17:44     ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 18:16       ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-11-17  8:54         ` Complex SPEC for variables/customization like font-lock-keywords/org-capture-templates/etc (was: Instead of pcase) Ihor Radchenko
2023-11-25  4:03           ` Complex SPEC for variables/customization like font-lock-keywords/org-capture-templates/etc Stefan Monnier
2023-11-16 19:19       ` Instead of pcase Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-17  8:02         ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 18:21     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-16 18:39       ` T.V Raman
2023-11-16 18:47         ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-11-16 18:51           ` T.V Raman
2023-11-18  3:04           ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-19 12:23             ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 16:02               ` Barry Fishman
2023-11-19 17:59                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-19 19:31                   ` Eric Abrahamsen
2023-11-25  4:23                     ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2023-11-27  3:12                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-19 21:15                   ` Barry Fishman
2023-11-20  1:15                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-20 15:32                     ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-23  2:57                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-24 17:14                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-27  3:09                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-27 12:21                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-29  3:42                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-29 12:56                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-12-01  3:17                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-28  2:44                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-28 12:39                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-30  3:37                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-01  0:18                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-12-01  5:51                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-12-10  8:34                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-12-10  9:35                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-10  9:53                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-12-10 10:35                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-10 11:05                                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2023-12-01  7:21                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-01  8:03                                     ` Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-02  3:21                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-24 18:14                         ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-24 18:35                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-27  3:14                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-28  2:46                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-28  6:35                               ` Nikita Domnitskii
2023-11-30  3:37                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-02 21:37                                 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-12-10 15:14                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-10 16:27                               ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-12-10 20:28                                 ` Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-10 21:13                                   ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-12-12  3:43                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-12  6:46                                     ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-12-12 15:18                                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-12-14  3:24                                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-14 16:52                                         ` Drew Adams
2023-12-16  4:24                                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-16  5:04                                             ` Drew Adams
2023-12-16 18:30                                               ` Bob Rogers
2023-12-18  4:13                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-12 19:24                                     ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-12-12 21:36                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-12-12 22:25                                         ` Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-13  1:32                                     ` Adam Porter
2023-12-14  3:23                                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-16  4:23                                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-18  4:09                                         ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-18 10:08                                           ` cond* João Távora
2023-12-21  4:20                                             ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-21  9:50                                               ` cond* João Távora
2023-12-21 16:01                                                 ` [External] : cond* Drew Adams
2023-12-21 16:20                                                   ` João Távora
2023-12-24  3:56                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-24  3:57                                                 ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-21 14:10                                               ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2023-12-24  3:57                                                 ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-25 14:14                                                   ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2023-12-19  3:49                                           ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-19 12:13                                             ` cond* João Távora
2023-12-22  3:14                                               ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-22  7:27                                                 ` cond* Philip Kaludercic
2023-12-25  3:41                                                   ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-25 12:32                                                     ` cond* Philip Kaludercic
2023-12-27  4:54                                                       ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-27 14:34                                                         ` cond* Philip Kaludercic
2023-12-29  3:52                                                           ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-01 14:49                                                             ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-03  4:13                                                               ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-03 15:57                                                                 ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-05  4:23                                                                   ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-06 14:33                                                                     ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-06 22:25                                                                       ` [External] : cond* Drew Adams
2024-01-08  3:45                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2024-01-08 15:20                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2024-01-09  2:53                                                                           ` map seq and radix-tree-leaf, in pcase Richard Stallman
2024-01-08  3:47                                                                       ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-10 13:03                                                                         ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-13  3:50                                                                           ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-13  6:32                                                                             ` cond* Adam Porter
2024-01-16  3:31                                                                               ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-13 19:47                                                                             ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-15  3:13                                                                               ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-08  3:47                                                                       ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-08 15:13                                                                         ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-27  3:37                                                                           ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-02-01 16:26                                                                             ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-02-03  3:36                                                                               ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-02-03 16:52                                                                                 ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-03  4:13                                                               ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-03 15:48                                                                 ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-06  4:31                                                                   ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-06 13:09                                                                     ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-08  3:47                                                                       ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-08 15:26                                                                         ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-27  3:37                                                                           ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-03  4:13                                                               ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-03 15:50                                                                 ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-06  4:31                                                                   ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-06 13:13                                                                     ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-08  3:47                                                                       ` cond* Richard Stallman
2024-01-08 15:35                                                                         ` cond* Ihor Radchenko
2023-12-19 15:53                                             ` [External] : cond* Drew Adams
2023-12-21  4:22                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-21  4:22                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-18  4:09                                         ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-18  5:41                                           ` cond* Adam Porter
2023-12-21  4:20                                             ` cond* Richard Stallman
2023-12-16  4:23                                       ` Instead of pcase Richard Stallman
2023-12-16  4:23                                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-16  6:57                                         ` Adam Porter
2023-12-20  3:28                                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-20 10:52                                             ` Adam Porter
2023-12-23  2:53                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-23  2:53                                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-25 14:26                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-12-27  4:54                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-28 13:05                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-12-30  3:20                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2024-01-01 14:33                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-03  4:13                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2024-01-03  4:13                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2024-01-03 16:08                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-05  4:23                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2024-01-06 13:04                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-08  3:47                                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2024-01-08 15:42                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-01-27  3:37                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-13  4:58                                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-11  3:31                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-19 13:49             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-21  2:42               ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-21  5:14                 ` Jim Porter
2023-11-21  5:34                 ` Yuri Khan
2023-11-21 11:11                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-21 15:38                   ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-23  3:00                     ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-24  3:34                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-24  4:30                     ` Jim Porter
2023-11-24  7:45                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-25  3:08                       ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-24 17:01                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-24 17:29                 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-11-28  2:44                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-30 19:14                     ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-11-30 19:26                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-30 20:30                         ` Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-01  6:24                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-01 15:47                             ` Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-01 16:07                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-01 20:27                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-12-02 13:24                                 ` Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-02 13:51                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-12-04  3:11                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-03  3:28                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-30 20:47                         ` João Távora
2023-12-01  6:31                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-01  7:07                             ` Yuri Khan
2023-12-01  8:10                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-01  9:04                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2023-12-04  3:08                                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-04 11:58                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-04 12:35                                       ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-12-04 13:20                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-04 17:46                                           ` Andreas Schwab
2023-12-07  2:48                                             ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-07 17:42                                               ` Andreas Schwab
2023-12-09  4:02                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-04 18:17                                           ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-12-04 12:37                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-12-08  3:54                                         ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-01 10:13                                 ` João Távora
2023-12-01  8:35                             ` Andreas Schwab
2023-12-01 10:02                             ` João Távora
2023-12-01 11:52                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-01 12:48                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-12-01 14:44                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-01 18:28                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-12-01 18:40                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-01 18:45                                       ` João Távora
2024-01-09  5:36                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2023-12-01 13:28                                 ` João Távora
2023-12-01 16:25                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2024-01-09  5:33                               ` Stefan Kangas
2024-01-09 10:43                                 ` João Távora
2023-12-01 16:04                             ` Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-01 16:33                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-12-02  3:20                       ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-02  8:41                         ` Andreas Schwab
2023-12-02  9:02                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-12-02 10:14                             ` Emanuel Berg
2023-12-02 17:02                               ` Barry Fishman
2023-12-02 20:25                                 ` Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-03  4:30                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-12-05  2:58                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-05  3:36                             ` chad
2023-12-08  3:53                               ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-02 14:33                         ` Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2023-12-04  3:11                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-02 18:01                         ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-12-04  3:11                           ` Richard Stallman
2023-12-04 12:27                             ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-12-03  3:27                         ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-25  4:15                 ` Stefan Monnier
2023-11-27  3:12                   ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-30 18:06                     ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 18:49         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-16 23:41     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-17  7:34       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-26  3:17   ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-16 15:06 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-16 17:31   ` T.V Raman
2023-11-16 18:26     ` Jim Porter
2023-11-16 18:40       ` T.V Raman
2023-11-16 19:13         ` Jim Porter
2023-11-20  3:06   ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-20 14:35     ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-23  2:57       ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-16 15:20 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-11-16 20:16   ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-11-16 21:37     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2023-11-25  4:34     ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2023-11-25  8:53       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-18  3:03   ` combining cond and let, to replace pcase Richard Stallman
2023-11-19 11:20     ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 11:43       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 12:16         ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-19 13:21           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 13:32             ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-19 14:41               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 15:27                 ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-19 15:29                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 16:03           ` Joost Kremers
2023-11-19 16:59             ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 18:29               ` Joost Kremers
2023-11-19 18:35                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 12:50         ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 13:08           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 13:52             ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 14:45               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-20 15:35                 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-20 16:37                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-21  8:33                     ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-21  8:39                       ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 13:59             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-19 14:49               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 14:53                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-19 12:04       ` Gerd Möllmann
2023-11-19 18:10       ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-11-25  4:45         ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2023-11-28 15:31           ` João Távora
2023-11-28 15:55             ` Stefan Monnier
2023-11-19 21:36       ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-11-21 16:14         ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 16:08     ` Axel Forsman
2023-11-21 15:53     ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-23  2:58     ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-23  7:02       ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-11-26  3:14         ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-27 17:07           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-11-27 17:59             ` Yuri Khan
2023-11-28 14:25               ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-11-23  8:58       ` Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-11-26  3:14         ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-24  3:08       ` Daniel Semyonov
2023-11-24  3:26         ` Daniel Semyonov
2023-11-25  2:59         ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-25  5:11       ` Stefan Monnier via Emacs development discussions.
2023-11-27  3:11         ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-27 18:13           ` Manuel Giraud via Emacs development discussions.
2023-11-27 18:49             ` Yuri Khan
2023-11-27 23:12               ` Stefan Monnier
2023-11-29  3:41               ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-29  3:40             ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-27  3:11         ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-16 18:11 ` Instead of pcase Emanuel Berg
2023-11-16 19:26   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-16 22:16     ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-17  7:30       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-17  8:09         ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-17 12:16           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-18  6:26             ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-18  7:21               ` Po Lu
2023-11-18  7:41                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-16 18:22 ` Jim Porter
2023-11-16 22:55   ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-17  5:36   ` Po Lu [this message]
2023-11-19 11:48     ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 12:50       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 14:05         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-19 14:41           ` Po Lu
2023-11-19 14:44             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-19 14:52           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 14:58             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-19 15:14               ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 18:04                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-19 18:30                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-19 18:51                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-19 19:49                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-21  2:43               ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-19 14:14         ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 15:09           ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-11-20 14:52             ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-19 14:29       ` Po Lu
2023-11-20 15:20         ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-11-20 15:29         ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-20 23:43           ` Po Lu
2023-11-21  1:09             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-21  1:49               ` Po Lu
2023-11-21  1:59                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-21  4:04                   ` Po Lu
2023-11-21 11:27                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-21 11:49                       ` Po Lu
2023-11-20 23:45           ` Jose E. Marchesi
2023-11-20 23:54             ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-21  2:01             ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-22  2:59               ` Richard Stallman
2023-11-22  3:29                 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-11-22 11:58                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-11-24  3:38                   ` Richard Stallman

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