From: Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: GTK file selector
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:59:54 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87aceyf7ed.fsf@jurta.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <17316.35545.44735.66533@parhasard.net> (Aidan Kehoe's message of "Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:02:01 +0100")
> > The filename entry field (with available TAB completion like in Emacs) was
> > a very useful feature. Neither C-l nor a small text box that appears
> > after starting typing is an acceptable replacement.
>
> What the Gnome people have implemented is an acceptable replacement; it
> gives the same functionality as the old but without its confusing features.
These "confusing" features were very useful.
> If you don’t accept that, then I’ve no confidence that you’ve ever used the
> new file selection dialog.
Of course, I've used the new file selection dialog in GTK applications
other than Emacs configured to use GTK. When I encountered the new
file selection dialog for the first time, I wasted my time searching on
the Web how to return a good old filename entry field. Fortunately,
many mailing lists were full of cursing at the new file dialog, so it
was easy to find information about C-l which is not intuitive.
The new file selection dialog is a failure of Gnome developers to design
an intuitive and convenient UI for beginners as well as for power users.
> > > And yes, making GNU Emacs behave more like a Win32 app, like Notepad,
> > > _will_ make naïve users happy. Look at the success of CUA-mode.
> >
> > CUA-mode doesn't disable useful Emacs features.
>
> What on Earth gave you the idea that I suggested disabling useful features?
Removing the filename entry field was disabling a useful feature.
> > > Hang round with Win32 users looking for an advanced editor, and they’ll
> > > go for Notepad++ long before GNU Emacs, because all their habits from
> > > Notepad work in Notepad++, and not in emacs.
> >
> > Notepad++ is not easier to use for naive users than Emacs.
>
> It’s much easier to use for a naïve Win32 user than is any emacs, and in
> 2005 the number of users who come to Emacs before encountering Win32 and
> gaining some experience is infinitesimally small compared to the number with
> previous Win32 experience.
Could you elaborate a bit what makes it easier for naïve Windows users
to use than emacsen? A simple user interface? A familiar user interface?
Easy configuration? Something else?
> > > Emacs is more featureful, but not enough to overcome the pain of finding
> > > out what CUA-mode is
> >
> > The top-level menu item in the Options menu that enables CUA-mode
> > and its tooltip are self-descriptive enough.
>
> I disagree.
The current menu item for enabling CUA-mode is "C-x/C-c/C-v Cut and Paste (CUA)"
and the tooltip is "Use C-z/C-x/C-c/C-v keys for undo/cut/copy/paste".
This gives a good hint about what is CUA-mode for.
> > > and doing all the other donkey-work to have the editor behave like what
> > > they’re used to.
> >
> > Experts can do this easily anyway.
>
> And an editor that makes it unnecessary is still more attractive than one
> where it must be done.
An editor that makes customization unnecessary? I never heard about
such an editor. As far as I recall even Notepad has one customizable
option - to toggle line wrapping :-)
> > > and minimal consideration for GUI users in this age of 17"
> > > screens. Among other reasons.
> > >
> > > Eclipse, VIM or Notepad++ seem to be what most of the power users I
> > > know who chose an advanced editor recently are using.
> >
> > I don't think VIM belongs to the category of Notepad-like editors.
>
> And? I do know some Unix power-users.
You still haven't mentioned advantages of these editors for power users
over emacsen.
--
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2005-12-18 20:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 95+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2005-12-14 9:27 GTK file selector Jérôme Marant
2005-12-14 14:06 ` Aidan Kehoe
2005-12-14 14:38 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-14 19:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-12-14 20:33 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-14 20:00 ` Jan Djärv
2005-12-16 20:10 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-16 20:16 ` Jan Djärv
2005-12-16 20:28 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-16 22:00 ` Paul Pogonyshev
2005-12-14 15:25 ` Mario Domenech Goulart
2005-12-14 20:30 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-14 15:28 ` Frank Schmitt
2005-12-15 9:00 ` Stephen Berman
2005-12-16 1:52 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-15 12:59 ` Juri Linkov
2005-12-15 15:52 ` Aidan Kehoe
2005-12-16 7:56 ` Juri Linkov
2005-12-16 11:38 ` Aidan Kehoe
2005-12-16 12:49 ` Juri Linkov
2005-12-16 15:40 ` Romain Francoise
2005-12-17 10:44 ` Kaloian Doganov
2005-12-17 15:16 ` Romain Francoise
2005-12-16 16:27 ` Kim F. Storm
2005-12-16 20:54 ` Chong Yidong
2005-12-16 20:08 ` Nick Roberts
2005-12-16 22:23 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-16 23:23 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-16 23:38 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-17 13:05 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-17 15:22 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-17 22:21 ` Aidan Kehoe
2005-12-18 0:38 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-18 11:07 ` Aidan Kehoe
2005-12-18 12:56 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-18 13:40 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-18 17:37 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2005-12-18 17:57 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-18 20:37 ` Xavier Maillard
2005-12-18 22:36 ` Miles Bader
2005-12-18 23:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2005-12-19 14:07 ` Xavier Maillard
2005-12-19 1:41 ` Tom Tromey
2005-12-19 2:26 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2005-12-19 5:33 ` Tom Tromey
2005-12-18 22:33 ` Miles Bader
2005-12-17 15:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-12-17 22:02 ` Aidan Kehoe
2005-12-18 20:59 ` Juri Linkov [this message]
2005-12-22 15:26 ` Lőrentey Károly
2005-12-17 16:22 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2005-12-18 5:24 ` Nick Roberts
2005-12-18 10:25 ` Aidan Kehoe
2005-12-18 12:23 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-18 12:47 ` Aidan Kehoe
2005-12-18 12:57 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-18 12:14 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-18 14:47 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2005-12-18 15:07 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-18 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-12-19 4:38 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-17 16:52 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-12-16 20:13 ` Jan Djärv
2005-12-17 10:57 ` Juri Linkov
2005-12-18 17:02 ` Jan D.
2005-12-19 4:40 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-19 23:18 ` Jan D.
2005-12-20 0:36 ` Jan D.
2005-12-20 16:33 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-20 19:21 ` Jan D.
2005-12-21 5:30 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-22 9:27 ` Jan D.
2005-12-22 22:20 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-23 0:09 ` David Kastrup
2005-12-23 11:38 ` Jan D.
2005-12-23 18:09 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-24 20:29 ` Jan D.
2005-12-25 19:06 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-27 10:47 ` Jan D.
2005-12-27 13:31 ` Jan D.
2005-12-27 16:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2005-12-28 10:50 ` Jan D.
2005-12-20 5:32 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-20 6:35 ` Jan D.
2005-12-21 2:58 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-19 23:45 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-17 13:06 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-14 16:18 ` Reiner Steib
2005-12-14 21:23 ` Jérôme Marant
2005-12-14 16:20 ` Emfox Zhou
2005-12-15 2:08 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-16 20:05 ` Jérôme Marant
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-12-16 18:53 Pierre-Charles David
2005-12-17 10:57 ` Juri Linkov
2005-12-18 17:02 ` Jan D.
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