* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
@ 2022-06-27 12:27 Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-27 22:56 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-06-27 12:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 56255
Hi,
I just stumbled upon an unexpected behavior of sxhash-equal.
According to its docstring:
sxhash-equal is a function defined in fns.c.
Documentation
Return an integer hash code for OBJ suitable for equal.
If (equal A B), then (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)).
So, if A is changed, I expect (sxhash-equal A) to change as well.
Now, consider the following code:
(setq a (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
(avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 2)))
(avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 4)))
(sxhash-equal a) ;; some value
(plist-put (nth 1 (avl-tree-first a)) :begin 10)
(sxhash-equal a) ;; the value does not change!
The result of sxhash-equal does not change despite `a' object being
changed.
Best,
Ihor
In GNU Emacs 28.1.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, cairo version 1.16.0)
of 2022-05-26 built on localhost
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/home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/let-alist/let-alist hides /usr/share/emacs/28.1.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/let-alist
/home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/map/map hides /usr/share/emacs/28.1.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/map
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Memory information:
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(symbols 48 83706 1504)
(strings 32 570057 296114)
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(buffers 992 60))
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-27 12:27 bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-06-27 22:56 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-27 23:00 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-06-27 22:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: 56255
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
> The result of sxhash-equal does not change despite `a' object being
> changed.
Here's a self-contained example:
(require 'org-element)
(setq c (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
(avl-tree-enter c '(headline (:begin 2)))
(setq d (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
(avl-tree-enter d '(headline (:begin 5)))
(equal c d)
nil
(sxhash-equal c)
1776904311275
(sxhash-equal d)
1776904311275
This is due to:
/* Maximum depth up to which to dive into Lisp structures. */
#define SXHASH_MAX_DEPTH 3
Since this record nests to a depth of 4, and that's where the difference
is.
So I think the doc string overstates things.
--
If (equal A B), then (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)).
--
Is not remotely true, but:
--
If (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)) then it's quite likely that
(equal A B), but the opposite is not true for deeply nested structures.
--
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-27 22:56 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-06-27 23:00 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-28 12:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-06-27 23:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: 56255
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> So I think the doc string overstates things.
>
> --
> If (equal A B), then (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)).
> --
>
> Is not remotely true, but:
>
> --
> If (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)) then it's quite likely that
> (equal A B), but the opposite is not true for deeply nested structures.
> --
Sorry, that's all wrong, and what the doc string says is true. That is,
if they're equal, then the hash is =.
But (= (sxhash-equal A) (sxhash-equal B)) does not imply that
(equal A B), and the doc string should say that explicitly.
It's the manual that's wrong here:
If the two objects are not ‘equal’, the values returned by
‘sxhash-equal’ are usually different, but not always; once in a
rare while, by luck, you will encounter two distinct-looking
objects that give the same result from ‘sxhash-equal’.
It's not "once in a rare while" for deeply nested structures.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-27 23:00 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-06-28 12:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-29 1:58 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-06-28 12:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: 56255
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> It's the manual that's wrong here:
I've now clarified the manual and doc strings here in Emacs 29.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-28 12:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-06-29 1:58 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-29 10:01 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-06-29 1:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 56255
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
>> It's the manual that's wrong here:
>
> I've now clarified the manual and doc strings here in Emacs 29.
Thanks!
Off topic: Do you know any other way to detect if deeply nested object
has changed (other than creating a deep copy and using equal)?
Best,
Ihor
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-29 1:58 ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-06-29 10:01 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-29 10:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-06-29 10:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: 56255
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
> Off topic: Do you know any other way to detect if deeply nested object
> has changed (other than creating a deep copy and using equal)?
Printing the object to a buffer and then using `buffer-hash' should be
OK for most structures, but would be very slow for large objects.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-29 10:01 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-06-29 10:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-29 10:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-06-29 10:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 56255
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Off topic: Do you know any other way to detect if deeply nested object
>> has changed (other than creating a deep copy and using equal)?
>
> Printing the object to a buffer and then using `buffer-hash' should be
> OK for most structures, but would be very slow for large objects.
This is exactly the problem at hand. I was hoping to find a fast way to
detect if a large deeply nested object is changed. If not, do not print
that object for the purpose of saving it to disk cache. Printing can
take up to 2-3 seconds in some cases.
Best,
Ihor
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-29 10:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-06-29 10:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-29 12:33 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-06-29 10:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: 56255
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
> This is exactly the problem at hand. I was hoping to find a fast way to
> detect if a large deeply nested object is changed. If not, do not print
> that object for the purpose of saving it to disk cache. Printing can
> take up to 2-3 seconds in some cases.
I think you basically have to restructure the code to add a guard to
whatever's updating the structure to see whether it's "dirty" or not.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-29 10:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-06-29 12:33 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-29 12:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-06-29 12:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 56255
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> This is exactly the problem at hand. I was hoping to find a fast way to
>> detect if a large deeply nested object is changed. If not, do not print
>> that object for the purpose of saving it to disk cache. Printing can
>> take up to 2-3 seconds in some cases.
>
> I think you basically have to restructure the code to add a guard to
> whatever's updating the structure to see whether it's "dirty" or not.
This is only possible when I have access to the code making changes to
the object.
The original idea was to detect changed objects in most generic way, as
a part of persistent storage library. Oh well.
Best,
Ihor
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-29 12:33 ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-06-29 12:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-29 12:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-06-29 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: 56255
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
> The original idea was to detect changed objects in most generic way, as
> a part of persistent storage library. Oh well.
We could make SXHASH_MAX_DEPTH into a defvar -- or pass the depth in to
`sxhash-equal'. However, the hash it's computing is geared towards hash
tables, so collisions are OK -- it's not a cryptographic hash, so I'm
not sure it would fit your use case anyway. I.e., our sxhash_combine is
very simple.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-29 12:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-06-29 12:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-30 9:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-06-29 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 56255
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> The original idea was to detect changed objects in most generic way, as
>> a part of persistent storage library. Oh well.
>
> We could make SXHASH_MAX_DEPTH into a defvar -- or pass the depth in to
> `sxhash-equal'. However, the hash it's computing is geared towards hash
> tables, so collisions are OK -- it's not a cryptographic hash, so I'm
> not sure it would fit your use case anyway. I.e., our sxhash_combine is
> very simple.
Well. In my scenario, the object structure creates so bad case that
_all_ the hashes for _all possible_ avl-tree structures collide
(actually, I use plists containing avl-tree structures).
As for the hash tables and collisions. Are you sure that collisions are
OK? Consider the following example:
(setq a (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
(avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 2)))
(setq tbl (make-hash-table :test #'equal))
(puthash a 'value tbl)
(gethash a tbl)
(plist-put (nth 1 (avl-tree-first a)) :begin 10)
(gethash a tbl) ;; the value does not change!
Best,
Ihor
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-29 12:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
@ 2022-06-30 9:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-30 11:16 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-06-30 9:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ihor Radchenko; +Cc: 56255
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
> As for the hash tables and collisions. Are you sure that collisions are
> OK? Consider the following example:
>
> (setq a (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
> (avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 2)))
> (setq tbl (make-hash-table :test #'equal))
> (puthash a 'value tbl)
> (gethash a tbl)
> (plist-put (nth 1 (avl-tree-first a)) :begin 10)
> (gethash a tbl) ;; the value does not change!
That has nothing to do with collisions -- you're free to alter a key as
much as you want. It's just a normal Lisp object.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified
2022-06-30 9:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-06-30 11:16 ` Ihor Radchenko
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Ihor Radchenko @ 2022-06-30 11:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 56255
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>> (setq a (avl-tree--create #'org-element--cache-compare))
>> (avl-tree-enter a '(headline (:begin 2)))
>> (setq tbl (make-hash-table :test #'equal))
>> (puthash a 'value tbl)
>> (gethash a tbl)
>> (plist-put (nth 1 (avl-tree-first a)) :begin 10)
>> (gethash a tbl) ;; the value does not change!
>
> That has nothing to do with collisions -- you're free to alter a key as
> much as you want. It's just a normal Lisp object.
You are indeed right. Thanks for the clarification!
Best,
Ihor
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-06-30 11:16 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-06-27 12:27 bug#56255: 28.1.50; sxhash-equal does not change when object is modified Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-27 22:56 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-27 23:00 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-28 12:58 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-29 1:58 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-29 10:01 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-29 10:12 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-29 10:15 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-29 12:33 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-29 12:38 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-29 12:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-30 9:06 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-06-30 11:16 ` Ihor Radchenko
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