* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings [not found] <20220122182635.hi7i2alow4ishyz5.ref@Ergus> @ 2022-01-22 18:26 ` Ergus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors 2022-01-22 19:18 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Ergus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-01-22 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 53452 Hi: When translate-upper-case-key-bindings is nil; the shift-arrow selection does not work emacs -Q M-: (setq translate-upper-case-key-bindings nil) S-<right> // says it is not bound... somehow expected. M-: (keymap-global-set "S-<right>" #'right-char) S-<right> // Now moves point but with no selection I don't know where/how emacs recognizes the Shift in this case, but somehow it is not working Best, In GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 42, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.31, cairo version 1.17.4) of 2022-01-21 built on Ergus Repository revision: 1228ec3e1d7657c9eb50184719410f37ed0eb750 Repository branch: master System Description: Arch Linux Configured using: 'configure --prefix=/home/ergo/.local/ --with-mailutils --with-json --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-xft --with-wide-int --with-modules --with-cairo --with-harfbuzz --with-native-compilation --with-pgtk' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PGTK PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS WEBP XIM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix 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* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-22 18:26 ` bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings Ergus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-01-22 19:18 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-01-24 10:54 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-22 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ergus; +Cc: 53452 > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 19:26:35 +0100 > From: Ergus via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> > > When translate-upper-case-key-bindings is nil; the shift-arrow selection > does not work > > emacs -Q > M-: (setq translate-upper-case-key-bindings nil) > S-<right> // says it is not bound... somehow expected. > > M-: (keymap-global-set "S-<right>" #'right-char) > S-<right> // Now moves point but with no selection > > I don't know where/how emacs recognizes the Shift in this case, but > somehow it is not working It sounds like it cannot work in that case, because shift-select _requires_ that a key was shift-translated, and setting translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil disables that translation. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-22 19:18 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-24 10:54 ` Robert Pluim 2022-01-24 12:38 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-01-24 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-24 10:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Ergus, 53452 >>>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 21:18:11 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said: >> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 19:26:35 +0100 >> From: Ergus via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, >> the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> >> >> When translate-upper-case-key-bindings is nil; the shift-arrow selection >> does not work >> >> emacs -Q >> M-: (setq translate-upper-case-key-bindings nil) >> S-<right> // says it is not bound... somehow expected. >> >> M-: (keymap-global-set "S-<right>" #'right-char) >> S-<right> // Now moves point but with no selection >> >> I don't know where/how emacs recognizes the Shift in this case, but >> somehow it is not working Eli> It sounds like it cannot work in that case, because shift-select Eli> _requires_ that a key was shift-translated, and setting Eli> translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil disables that translation. The docstring says: "If non-nil, interpret upper case keys as lower case (when applicable)." which strongly implies that this only applies to letters, not keys like <right> Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-24 10:54 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-24 12:38 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-01-24 13:19 ` Robert Pluim 2022-01-24 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-24 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> > Cc: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>, 53452@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:54:19 +0100 > > Eli> It sounds like it cannot work in that case, because shift-select > Eli> _requires_ that a key was shift-translated, and setting > Eli> translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil disables that translation. > > The docstring says: > "If non-nil, interpret upper case keys as lower case (when applicable)." > > which strongly implies that this only applies to letters, not keys > like <right> That's a wrong impression, the translation applies to all the keys. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-24 12:38 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-24 13:19 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-24 13:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 >>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:38:39 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said: >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> >> Cc: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>, 53452@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:54:19 +0100 >> Eli> It sounds like it cannot work in that case, because shift-select Eli> _requires_ that a key was shift-translated, and setting Eli> translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil disables that translation. >> >> The docstring says: >> "If non-nil, interpret upper case keys as lower case (when applicable)." >> >> which strongly implies that this only applies to letters, not keys >> like <right> Eli> That's a wrong impression, the translation applies to all the keys. Yes, it does, but itʼs unexpected (to me at least), that setting `translate-upper-case-key-bindings' to nil has the effect of disabling that translation. Iʼd expect to see that side effect described in the docstring, but that only talks about upper<->lower case mapping. Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-24 10:54 ` Robert Pluim 2022-01-24 12:38 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-24 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-01-24 13:21 ` Robert Pluim 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-24 12:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> > Cc: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>, 53452@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:54:19 +0100 > > Eli> It sounds like it cannot work in that case, because shift-select > Eli> _requires_ that a key was shift-translated, and setting > Eli> translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil disables that translation. > > The docstring says: > "If non-nil, interpret upper case keys as lower case (when applicable)." > > which strongly implies that this only applies to letters, not keys > like <right> That's not the implementation, though. And I'm not sure applying it only to letters would make sense. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-24 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-24 13:21 ` Robert Pluim 2022-01-24 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-24 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 >>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:40:29 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said: >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> >> Cc: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>, 53452@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:54:19 +0100 >> Eli> It sounds like it cannot work in that case, because shift-select Eli> _requires_ that a key was shift-translated, and setting Eli> translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil disables that translation. >> >> The docstring says: >> "If non-nil, interpret upper case keys as lower case (when applicable)." >> >> which strongly implies that this only applies to letters, not keys >> like <right> Eli> That's not the implementation, though. And I'm not sure applying it Eli> only to letters would make sense. Why not? non-letters donʼt have a case, they only have a potential Shift modifier. Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-24 13:21 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-24 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-01-25 10:19 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-24 13:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> > Cc: spacibba@aol.com, 53452@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:21:23 +0100 > > >>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:40:29 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said: > > >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> > >> Cc: Ergus <spacibba@aol.com>, 53452@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:54:19 +0100 > >> > Eli> It sounds like it cannot work in that case, because shift-select > Eli> _requires_ that a key was shift-translated, and setting > Eli> translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil disables that translation. > >> > >> The docstring says: > >> "If non-nil, interpret upper case keys as lower case (when applicable)." > >> > >> which strongly implies that this only applies to letters, not keys > >> like <right> > > Eli> That's not the implementation, though. And I'm not sure applying it > Eli> only to letters would make sense. > > Why not? Because people will probably want it applied to any key. There's nothing special about letters, except that "upper-case" implicitly refers to letters. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-24 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-25 10:19 ` Robert Pluim 2022-01-25 12:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-25 10:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 >>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:39:28 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said: >> Why not? Eli> Because people will probably want it applied to any key. There's Eli> nothing special about letters, except that "upper-case" implicitly Eli> refers to letters. Let's start again: Currently, S-<right> produces S-<right>, but is translated to <right>, and C-S-a is translated to C-a If you set translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil, then S-<right> produces S-<right>, and C-S-a produces C-S-a So the effect is as if the option were called 'translate-shift-bindings', but that effect is not called out anywhere. So either we fix the behaviour, or the documentation. Would it be that hard to restrict this to something like [a-z] or !function key? Or we could always add yet-another-user-option. Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-25 10:19 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-25 12:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-01-25 12:37 ` Robert Pluim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-25 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> > Cc: spacibba@aol.com, 53452@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:19:33 +0100 > > >>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:39:28 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said: > >> Why not? > > Eli> Because people will probably want it applied to any key. There's > Eli> nothing special about letters, except that "upper-case" implicitly > Eli> refers to letters. > > Let's start again: > > Currently, S-<right> produces S-<right>, but is translated to <right>, > and C-S-a is translated to C-a > > If you set translate-upper-case-key-bindings to nil, then S-<right> > produces S-<right>, and C-S-a produces C-S-a > > So the effect is as if the option were called > 'translate-shift-bindings', but that effect is not called out > anywhere. > > So either we fix the behaviour, or the documentation. Would it be that > hard to restrict this to something like [a-z] or !function key? Or we > could always add yet-another-user-option. My point was that the behavior is probably okay, and the documentation should be amended if it could confuse. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-25 12:29 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-25 12:37 ` Robert Pluim 2022-01-25 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-25 12:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 >>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 14:29:56 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said: >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> >> So either we fix the behaviour, or the documentation. Would it be that >> hard to restrict this to something like [a-z] or !function key? Or we >> could always add yet-another-user-option. Eli> My point was that the behavior is probably okay, and the documentation Eli> should be amended if it could confuse. Itʼs only ok if weʼre ok with shift-selection being broken by it. Are we? Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings 2022-01-25 12:37 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-01-25 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-01-25 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim; +Cc: spacibba, 53452 > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> > Cc: spacibba@aol.com, 53452@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:37:13 +0100 > > >>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 14:29:56 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> said: > > >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> > >> So either we fix the behaviour, or the documentation. Would it be that > >> hard to restrict this to something like [a-z] or !function key? Or we > >> could always add yet-another-user-option. > > Eli> My point was that the behavior is probably okay, and the documentation > Eli> should be amended if it could confuse. > > Itʼs only ok if weʼre ok with shift-selection being broken by it. Are > we? Like I said: I don't see how shift-selection could NOT be broken by disabling shift-translation, because it DEPENDS on it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
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2022-01-22 18:26 ` bug#53452: 29.0.50; C-<arrow> selection broken by translate-upper-case-key-bindings Ergus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-01-22 19:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-24 10:54 ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-24 12:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-24 13:19 ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-24 12:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-24 13:21 ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-24 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-25 10:19 ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-25 12:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-01-25 12:37 ` Robert Pluim
2022-01-25 12:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
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