* bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp"
@ 2019-10-18 17:11 Nicholas Drozd
2019-10-19 8:37 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-10-19 9:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Nicholas Drozd @ 2019-10-18 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 37811
Section 5.7 of the Elisp manual ("Using Lists as Sets") mentions
"standard GNU Emacs Lisp". This makes it sound like there is a
language standard, which is not the case. I suggest changing the word
"standard". Possible alternatives: "basic", "plain", "out-of-the-box".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp"
2019-10-18 17:11 bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp" Nicholas Drozd
@ 2019-10-19 8:37 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-10-19 9:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2019-10-19 8:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicholas Drozd; +Cc: 37811
Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd@gmail.com> writes:
> Section 5.7 of the Elisp manual ("Using Lists as Sets") mentions
> "standard GNU Emacs Lisp". This makes it sound like there is a
> language standard, which is not the case. I suggest changing the word
> "standard". Possible alternatives: "basic", "plain", "out-of-the-box".
"plain" sounds good to me.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp"
2019-10-18 17:11 bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp" Nicholas Drozd
2019-10-19 8:37 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2019-10-19 9:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 12:35 ` Andreas Schwab
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-19 9:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nicholas Drozd; +Cc: 37811
> From: Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:11:34 -0500
>
> Section 5.7 of the Elisp manual ("Using Lists as Sets") mentions
> "standard GNU Emacs Lisp". This makes it sound like there is a
> language standard, which is not the case. I suggest changing the word
> "standard". Possible alternatives: "basic", "plain", "out-of-the-box".
It would sound as if there's a standard if "Standard" was capitalized,
which it isn't.
The text is
Common Lisp note: Common Lisp has functions ‘union’ (which avoids
duplicate elements) and ‘intersection’ for set operations.
Although standard GNU Emacs Lisp does not have them, the ‘cl-lib’
library provides versions. *Note (cl)Lists as Sets::.
So "standard" is used here in contrast to CL. I don't think any of
the proposed replacements pick up that nuance, do they?
We could perhaps simply drop "standard", I think the text will be
understood even without that, given that the reference to CL is so
close.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp"
2019-10-19 9:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-10-19 12:35 ` Andreas Schwab
2019-10-19 12:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2019-10-19 12:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 37811, Nicholas Drozd
On Okt 19 2019, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> The text is
>
> Common Lisp note: Common Lisp has functions ‘union’ (which avoids
> duplicate elements) and ‘intersection’ for set operations.
> Although standard GNU Emacs Lisp does not have them, the ‘cl-lib’
> library provides versions. *Note (cl)Lists as Sets::.
>
> So "standard" is used here in contrast to CL. I don't think any of
> the proposed replacements pick up that nuance, do they?
cl-lib is part of Emacs, but not loaded by default. I think that's what
standard is supposed to mean here.
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp"
2019-10-19 12:35 ` Andreas Schwab
@ 2019-10-19 12:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 12:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-19 12:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: 37811, nicholasdrozd
> From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org>
> Cc: Nicholas Drozd <nicholasdrozd@gmail.com>, 37811@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:35:58 +0200
>
> On Okt 19 2019, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > The text is
> >
> > Common Lisp note: Common Lisp has functions ‘union’ (which avoids
> > duplicate elements) and ‘intersection’ for set operations.
> > Although standard GNU Emacs Lisp does not have them, the ‘cl-lib’
> > library provides versions. *Note (cl)Lists as Sets::.
> >
> > So "standard" is used here in contrast to CL. I don't think any of
> > the proposed replacements pick up that nuance, do they?
>
> cl-lib is part of Emacs, but not loaded by default. I think that's what
> standard is supposed to mean here.
I see your point, but that wasn't my interpretation when I've read
that text.
Anyway, I think just dropping that word will fix the possible
confusion.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp"
2019-10-19 12:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-10-19 12:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-07 23:48 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-19 12:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: schwab; +Cc: 37811, nicholasdrozd
> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 15:50:04 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: 37811@debbugs.gnu.org, nicholasdrozd@gmail.com
>
> > > Common Lisp note: Common Lisp has functions ‘union’ (which avoids
> > > duplicate elements) and ‘intersection’ for set operations.
> > > Although standard GNU Emacs Lisp does not have them, the ‘cl-lib’
> > > library provides versions. *Note (cl)Lists as Sets::.
> > >
> > > So "standard" is used here in contrast to CL. I don't think any of
> > > the proposed replacements pick up that nuance, do they?
> >
> > cl-lib is part of Emacs, but not loaded by default. I think that's what
> > standard is supposed to mean here.
>
> I see your point, but that wasn't my interpretation when I've read
> that text.
>
> Anyway, I think just dropping that word will fix the possible
> confusion.
Or maybe we should simply say this:
Common Lisp note: Common Lisp has functions ‘union’ (which avoids
duplicate elements) and ‘intersection’ for set operations. In Emacs
Lisp, variants of these facilities are provided by the ‘cl-lib’
library. *Note (cl)Lists as Sets::.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp"
2019-10-19 12:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-11-07 23:48 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-11-08 9:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2019-11-07 23:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 37811, schwab, nicholasdrozd
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 15:50:04 +0300
>> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
>> Cc: 37811@debbugs.gnu.org, nicholasdrozd@gmail.com
>>
>> > > Common Lisp note: Common Lisp has functions ‘union’ (which avoids
>> > > duplicate elements) and ‘intersection’ for set operations.
>> > > Although standard GNU Emacs Lisp does not have them, the ‘cl-lib’
>> > > library provides versions. *Note (cl)Lists as Sets::.
>> > >
>> > > So "standard" is used here in contrast to CL. I don't think any of
>> > > the proposed replacements pick up that nuance, do they?
>> >
>> > cl-lib is part of Emacs, but not loaded by default. I think that's what
>> > standard is supposed to mean here.
>>
>> I see your point, but that wasn't my interpretation when I've read
>> that text.
>>
>> Anyway, I think just dropping that word will fix the possible
>> confusion.
>
> Or maybe we should simply say this:
>
> Common Lisp note: Common Lisp has functions ‘union’ (which avoids
> duplicate elements) and ‘intersection’ for set operations. In Emacs
> Lisp, variants of these facilities are provided by the ‘cl-lib’
> library. *Note (cl)Lists as Sets::.
Yes, this is much better than the other proposed alternatives. Please
push such a change. (The file to edit is emacs/doc/lispref/lists.texi
row 1215.)
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp"
2019-11-07 23:48 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2019-11-08 9:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-11-08 9:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: schwab, 37811-done, nicholasdrozd
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, 37811@debbugs.gnu.org, nicholasdrozd@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 00:48:59 +0100
>
> > Or maybe we should simply say this:
> >
> > Common Lisp note: Common Lisp has functions ‘union’ (which avoids
> > duplicate elements) and ‘intersection’ for set operations. In Emacs
> > Lisp, variants of these facilities are provided by the ‘cl-lib’
> > library. *Note (cl)Lists as Sets::.
>
> Yes, this is much better than the other proposed alternatives. Please
> push such a change. (The file to edit is emacs/doc/lispref/lists.texi
> row 1215.)
Done.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-11-08 9:56 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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2019-10-18 17:11 bug#37811: "standard GNU Emacs Lisp" Nicholas Drozd
2019-10-19 8:37 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-10-19 9:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 12:35 ` Andreas Schwab
2019-10-19 12:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-10-19 12:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-11-07 23:48 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-11-08 9:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
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