From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
To: "João Távora" <joaotavora@gmail.com>
Cc: 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, philipk@posteo.net,
monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
larsi@gnus.org
Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 00:06:01 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <06d29dbd-0b33-8698-bcb8-c89368612f54@gutov.dev> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALDnm53=3NG_0VBRQDuLjJVYZy-=9k5DoGzYzy16r6tTDgDprA@mail.gmail.com>
On 18/04/2023 23:56, João Távora wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 9:38 PM Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev> wrote:
>
>> This particular one didn't have to, but it's a problem very
>> characteristic of joining a strongly centralized project with ultimately
>> one person having the last word in all major decisions. And it's not
>> like Eli is being unreasonable: we do need a stability cutoff, and we're
>> really long past it. These one-more-change kind of arguments repeat year
>> over year, with reasonable, well-intentioned people on both sides.
>
> Yes. And here both people sides "one more change". The change that _did_
> make it in is more aggressive and more unstable than the one that didn't.
Well, not really. It's by definition more conservative one. Problem is,
it violates a practice established by third-party community outside of
Emacs.
>> Sure, and I agree, but I don't really see how to present that in terms
>> Eli would feel suitable to accept. One "trick" that worked in the past
>> was to somehow enumerate all potential execution flows (functions
>> involved, etc) that would be affected by the change.
>
> Right. And IMO it's not a "trick", it's how it should be. It's hard to prove a
> negative, but at least it should be attempted. Well, the patch I presented
> (the one you +1'ed) makes it so that package-install keeps exactly its previous
> behaviour unless its argument is one of (eglot use-package), which are arguments
> that could not have ever been passed to that function as :core packages
> in Emacs 28. M-x package-install RET seq or (package-install 'xref) keep EXACTLY
> the same behaviour. It's very clear to see from the minimal patch.
Perhaps a more structured/verbose outline of the same would help.
Although apparently the example I was thinking of
(https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=37774#479 and the
surrounding thread) occurred when the corresponding pretest hadn't
started yet.
>> I don't insist, not at all. It was just my own impression of what would
>> constitute a reasonable Eglot release that we could be satisfied with
>> having a large number of people use without upgrading, for years. Issues
>> like blinking eldoc messages, or eldoc messages that can take up half
>> the height of the window seem like things that we wouldn't want in it.
>
> The issue has existed and has been worked around successfully for a long
> period of time. It's not actually a problem, it's a consequence of the
> default values for eldoc-echo-area-use-multiline-p and max-mini-window-height,
> both of which predate Eglot.
So there is a workaround for it anyway, thanks for the reminder.
> Of course I think the current behaviour is better. But it's also different so
> I don't think we should backport that particular one. Even if so far the
> only feedback we have had has been positive, it could well be that some
> people _liked_ the half-the-window-height thing (after all their customization
> options reflected that wish, even if by default).
>
> And by the way, not really half-the-window. I used this for a long time
> without being much bothered by it.
I guess it depends on the number of overloads for the function around point.
>> Perhaps the second issue affects only a minority of servers, and I'm
>> wrong to be worried. Because otherwise, I really don't understand why it
>> hasn't been reported and fixed until recently. Not blaming you, just to
>> be clear.
>
> It was reported a long time ago. By you and others. But there wasn't
> the means -- or rather the energy from my part -- to fix it. I couldn't
> just have truncated that information. So I enhanced ElDoc instead with
> the :echo option.
Aha, so the :echo thingy made it possible. Gotcha.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-04-18 21:06 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 278+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-04-07 22:12 bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot João Távora
2023-04-08 1:03 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-08 10:43 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-08 10:48 ` João Távora
2023-04-08 14:42 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-08 15:25 ` João Távora
2023-04-08 15:45 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-10 16:01 ` João Távora
2023-04-10 18:13 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-11 11:02 ` João Távora
2023-04-11 11:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-11 12:52 ` João Távora
2023-04-11 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-11 18:31 ` João Távora
2023-04-11 18:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-11 20:08 ` João Távora
2023-04-11 20:25 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 5:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 7:58 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 8:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 8:51 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 10:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 10:38 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 11:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 11:00 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 11:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 11:15 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 11:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 11:35 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 11:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 12:01 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 12:00 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-12 12:18 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 12:28 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-12 12:55 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 12:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 13:42 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-12 14:11 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-12 14:14 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 14:17 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-12 14:20 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 15:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 16:13 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 16:16 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 17:14 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 17:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 17:43 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 19:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 19:39 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-13 5:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-13 7:38 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-13 8:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-13 11:23 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-13 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-13 15:10 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-13 15:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-13 17:49 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-13 18:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-13 18:49 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-14 10:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 12:34 ` Robert Pluim
2023-04-14 12:56 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 13:52 ` Robert Pluim
2023-04-14 15:34 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 15:52 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-14 16:05 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 16:28 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-14 16:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-14 16:40 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 16:53 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-14 17:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 18:32 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 18:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 19:03 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 19:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 19:31 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 16:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-14 16:31 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 16:54 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-14 17:32 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 18:27 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-14 18:39 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 19:33 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-14 19:48 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 17:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 18:44 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 18:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 19:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-14 19:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 19:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-14 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 19:34 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 19:20 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 19:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 19:46 ` João Távora
2023-04-14 20:04 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 8:35 ` João Távora
2023-04-15 10:40 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 10:44 ` João Távora
2023-04-15 12:34 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-15 9:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-15 10:24 ` João Távora
2023-04-15 10:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-15 11:19 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2023-04-15 12:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-15 13:36 ` João Távora
2023-04-15 16:53 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 21:16 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2023-04-16 10:23 ` João Távora
2023-04-16 20:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-16 21:54 ` João Távora
2023-04-17 2:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-17 2:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-18 1:25 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-18 11:44 ` João Távora
2023-04-18 20:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-18 20:56 ` João Távora
2023-04-18 21:06 ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2023-04-18 21:15 ` João Távora
2023-04-18 21:20 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 12:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 13:04 ` João Távora
2023-04-19 13:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 14:04 ` João Távora
2023-04-19 16:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 16:17 ` João Távora
2023-04-19 15:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 16:23 ` João Távora
2023-04-19 16:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 17:27 ` João Távora
2023-04-19 18:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 18:27 ` João Távora
2023-04-19 18:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-19 17:23 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-19 17:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CALDnm53J-HnUz26thrMbFXEARE8yiOJiBb2M75Qm3KKnxRxWzQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de>
[not found] ` <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <CALDnm51zZw4JhnxCEUApN0N-90c08d-jOct5i2xcTMOhBb78=g@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <83pm7z7nkc.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <4b63ef62-5e1c-3dcf-ec7b-06b69e79133b@gutov.dev>
[not found] ` <83o7nj7mfn.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <bd688d7c-1588-43f3-49db-c90d1312fad8@gutov.dev>
[not found] ` <CALDnm5341n=_VtRH2JxsDEH=7uwdsaCQMSCOn+jzDpfnh1qm7A@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <556e0fbb-215e-c11d-0e8b-73e97441abbb@gutov.dev>
[not found] ` <CALDnm52=KRVBn3Zse2DDC-SMHGot0mRpYUEZ7FH5vmAVH4Rimw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <e3408f6b-f050-a96d-c8c6-5f790cc90df4@gutov.dev>
2023-04-20 10:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 10:31 ` João Távora
2023-04-20 11:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 11:53 ` João Távora
2023-04-20 12:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 13:39 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20 13:56 ` João Távora
2023-04-20 14:25 ` João Távora
2023-04-20 14:31 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20 14:40 ` João Távora
2023-04-21 0:22 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20 14:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 15:03 ` João Távora
2023-04-20 14:51 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-20 14:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-20 14:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-20 18:08 ` Robert Pluim
2023-04-20 18:24 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-20 18:53 ` João Távora
2023-04-24 7:48 ` Robert Pluim
2023-04-24 8:57 ` João Távora
2023-04-24 9:38 ` Robert Pluim
2023-04-24 11:43 ` João Távora
2023-04-24 13:01 ` Robert Pluim
2023-04-24 13:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-24 13:12 ` Robert Pluim
2023-04-24 20:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-24 22:45 ` João Távora
2023-04-21 0:50 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-21 6:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-21 10:19 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-21 11:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-21 23:12 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 0:57 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 8:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-22 10:30 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 11:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-22 11:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 11:29 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 12:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-22 12:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-22 12:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 12:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-22 23:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-23 6:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-23 11:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-23 13:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-23 13:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-23 14:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-23 21:53 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-24 11:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-24 23:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-25 7:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-25 12:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-25 12:12 ` João Távora
2023-04-25 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-25 18:35 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-26 23:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-27 5:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-27 9:00 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-27 10:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-27 23:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-28 5:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-04 23:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-05-05 5:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-05 5:41 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-05-05 13:58 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-05-05 14:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-05-06 1:02 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-23 13:05 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-23 13:09 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 0:57 ` João Távora
2023-04-22 11:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 12:12 ` João Távora
2023-04-22 8:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-22 10:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-22 11:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 13:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 16:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-14 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 17:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-14 17:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-22 23:37 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-23 13:02 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-23 20:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-25 12:24 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-05-01 2:00 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-13 16:59 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-13 15:14 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-13 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-13 16:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-13 19:14 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-14 10:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-14 16:40 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 8:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-15 10:41 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 10:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-15 11:37 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 11:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-15 13:21 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 13:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-15 17:14 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 17:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-15 18:19 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-15 18:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-16 13:45 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-16 15:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-16 10:44 ` João Távora
2023-04-16 14:23 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2023-04-12 20:10 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-13 5:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 15:49 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-12 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 16:29 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 20:50 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-12 15:45 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-11 18:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-11 20:28 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 5:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 9:18 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 9:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 12:37 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 13:20 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-12 16:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-11 19:44 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-11 20:05 ` João Távora
2023-04-11 21:36 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-12 7:34 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-12 5:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 7:44 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-04-12 8:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-12 14:14 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-04-11 21:14 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-12 9:34 ` João Távora
2023-04-12 15:38 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-08 7:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-08 9:09 ` João Távora
2023-04-08 14:51 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-04-08 15:23 ` João Távora
2023-04-08 15:31 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-04-08 18:10 ` João Távora
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