compatible issue between MELPA org and source code org

compatible issue between MELPA org and source code org

[numbchild]

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Because some MELPA package requires `org`. So Emacs will **force** install
`org` package from MELPA. But it is delay with source code Org.
I use source code org with use-package like this:
```
(use-package org
  :load-path "~/Code/Emacs/org-mode/lisp/"
  :pin manual
  ;; :mode (("\\.org$" . org-mode))
  :config
  (use-package org-plus-contrib
    :load-path "~/Code/Emacs/org-mode/contrib/lisp/"
    :no-require t
    :pin manual)
  )
```
But Emacs still will load MELPA org with `(package-initialize)`.
In currently latest MELPA org package. It defines
`org-structure-template-alist` Like this:
```
(defcustom org-structure-template-alist
  '(("s" "#+BEGIN_SRC ?\n\n#+END_SRC")
    ("e" "#+BEGIN_EXAMPLE\n?\n#+END_EXAMPLE")
    ("q" "#+BEGIN_QUOTE\n?\n#+END_QUOTE")
    ("v" "#+BEGIN_VERSE\n?\n#+END_VERSE")
    ("V" "#+BEGIN_VERBATIM\n?\n#+END_VERBATIM")
    ("c" "#+BEGIN_CENTER\n?\n#+END_CENTER")
    ("C" "#+BEGIN_COMMENT\n?\n#+END_COMMENT")
    ("l" "#+BEGIN_EXPORT latex\n?\n#+END_EXPORT")
    ("L" "#+LaTeX: ")
    ("h" "#+BEGIN_EXPORT html\n?\n#+END_EXPORT")
    ("H" "#+HTML: ")
    ("a" "#+BEGIN_EXPORT ascii\n?\n#+END_EXPORT")
    ("A" "#+ASCII: ")
    ("i" "#+INDEX: ?")
    ("I" "#+INCLUDE: %file ?"))
  "Structure completion elements.
This is a list of abbreviation keys and values.  The value gets inserted
if you type `<' followed by the key and then press the completion key,
usually `TAB'.  %file will be replaced by a file name after prompting
for the file using completion.  The cursor will be placed at the position
of the `?' in the template.
There are two templates for each key, the first uses the original Org
syntax,
the second uses Emacs Muse-like syntax tags.  These Muse-like tags become
the default when the /org-mtags.el/ module has been loaded.  See also the
variable `org-mtags-prefer-muse-templates'."
  :group 'org-edit-structure
  :type '(repeat
      (list
       (string :tag "Key")
       (string :tag "Template")))
  :version "26.1"
  :package-version '(Org . "8.3"))
```
But in source code `master` branch. It is updated to use new templates.
So after Emacs finished launching.
It becomes like this:
```
 (("Q" "#+BEGIN_SRC sql-mode ?

 ,#+END_SRC" "#+BEGIN_SRC sql-mode ?

 ,#+END_SRC")
  ("n" "#+BEGIN_NOTES
 ?
 ,#+END_NOTES")
  (116 . "translate")
  ("s" "#+BEGIN_SRC ?

 ,#+END_SRC")
  ("e" "#+BEGIN_EXAMPLE
 ?
 ,#+END_EXAMPLE")
  ("q" "#+BEGIN_QUOTE
 ?
 ,#+END_QUOTE")
  ("v" "#+BEGIN_VERSE
 ?
 ,#+END_VERSE")
  ("V" "#+BEGIN_VERBATIM
 ?
 ,#+END_VERBATIM")
  ("c" "#+BEGIN_CENTER
 ?
 ,#+END_CENTER")
  ("C" "#+BEGIN_COMMENT
 ?
 ,#+END_COMMENT")
  ("l" "#+BEGIN_EXPORT latex
 ?
 ,#+END_EXPORT")
  ("L" "#+LaTeX: ")
  ("h" "#+BEGIN_EXPORT html
 ?
 ,#+END_EXPORT")
  ("H" "#+HTML: ")
  ("a" "#+BEGIN_EXPORT ascii
 ?
 ,#+END_EXPORT")
  ("A" "#+ASCII: ")
  ("i" "#+INDEX: ?")
  ("I" "#+INCLUDE: %file ?"))
 Original value was
 ((97 . "export ascii")
  (99 . "center")
  (67 . "comment")
  (101 . "example")
  (69 . "export")
  (104 . "export html")
  (108 . "export latex")
  (113 . "quote")
  (115 . "src")
  (118 . "verse"))
```

Does anybody have a perfect solution to use latest source code Org in Emacs
way? Please tell me thanks.
And question two: I don't know how to fix this issue. I think might org
should update MELPA org package? (I know package `org` updated recently)

[stardiviner]           <Hack this world!>      GPG key ID: 47C32433
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Re: compatible issue between MELPA org and source code org

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:41 AM numbchild@gmail.com <numbchild@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Does anybody have a perfect solution to use latest source code Org in
> Emacs way?
>

I've been using a solution that's working perfectly for me. Unfortunately,
the only way is to:

1. Uninstall all the Org installations that you don't want to use (example:
delete the Org Elpa installed version if you plan to use the git cloned
version).
2. Advice a package.el function that never auto-installs Org as dependency.
3. Another advice to never update Org using the package manager (as you
would be managing the updates yourself using git).

Basically the update/dependency-check should not install Org.

A while back, I did a detailed write-up on this setup:
https://scripter.co/building-org-development-version/. With that setup, and
modi/org-version-select set to 'dev, I don't have to worry about other Org
versions getting auto-installed.

> --

Kaushal Modi

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Re: compatible issue between MELPA org and source code org

[numbchild]

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Thanks for your advice. After your code inspiration. I got an idea. After
test, it works fine. I try to load `use-package` and `(use-package org :pin
manaul ..)` ahead of `(package-initialize)`. Half of the problem is solved.
The another half of the problem is that Emacs still will load built-in
org-mode in lisp/org/. I think I can't solve this problem essentially.
Because I can't load before Emacs built-in library. Oops.

[stardiviner]           <Hack this world!>      GPG key ID: 47C32433
IRC(freeenode): stardiviner                     Twitter:  @numbchild
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Blog: http://stardiviner.github.io/

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:41 AM numbchild@gmail.com <numbchild@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Does anybody have a perfect solution to use latest source code Org in
>> Emacs way?
>>
>
> I've been using a solution that's working perfectly for me. Unfortunately,
> the only way is to:
>
> 1. Uninstall all the Org installations that you don't want to use
> (example: delete the Org Elpa installed version if you plan to use the git
> cloned version).
> 2. Advice a package.el function that never auto-installs Org as
> dependency.
> 3. Another advice to never update Org using the package manager (as you
> would be managing the updates yourself using git).
>
> Basically the update/dependency-check should not install Org.
>
> A while back, I did a detailed write-up on this setup:
> https://scripter.co/building-org-development-version/. With that setup,
> and modi/org-version-select set to 'dev, I don't have to worry about other
> Org versions getting auto-installed.
>
>> --
>
> Kaushal Modi
>

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Re: compatible issue between MELPA org and source code org

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:09 AM numbchild@gmail.com <numbchild@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for your advice. After your code inspiration. I got an idea. After
> test, it works fine. I try to load `use-package` and `(use-package org :pin
> manaul ..)` ahead of `(package-initialize)`. Half of the problem is solved.
>


> The another half of the problem is that Emacs still will load built-in
> org-mode in lisp/org/. I think I can't solve this problem essentially.
> Because I can't load before Emacs built-in library. Oops.
>

Org doesn't load automatically.. it autoloads only if you open an Org file
or call an org-loading function. After emacs -Q, if you do M-: (featurep
'org), you will get nil. So the user does get a change to set the load path
as they want before any package gets loaded.

That's way, I tweak the load-path in the :preface section[1] in the org
use-package form. The load-path would be set exactly as I want before org
gets (auto)loaded.

[1]:
https://github.com/kaushalmodi/.emacs.d/blob/master/setup-files/setup-org.el


-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: compatible issue between MELPA org and source code org

[numbchild]

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After check your source code, I finally and with your theory:

> Org doesn't load automatically.. it autoloads only if you open an Org
file or call an org-loading function. After emacs -Q, if you do M-:
(featurep 'org), you will get nil. So the user does get a change to set the
load path as they want before any package gets loaded.

I finally understand how it works. Yesterday, I use a crude way: delete
Emacs built-in org/ directory. This works too. But I still take your
method. Your method is the correct way. Thanks very much.

[stardiviner]           <Hack this world!>      GPG key ID: 47C32433
IRC(freeenode): stardiviner                     Twitter:  @numbchild
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Blog: http://stardiviner.github.io/

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:09 AM numbchild@gmail.com <numbchild@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your advice. After your code inspiration. I got an idea. After
>> test, it works fine. I try to load `use-package` and `(use-package org :pin
>> manaul ..)` ahead of `(package-initialize)`. Half of the problem is solved.
>>
>
>
>> The another half of the problem is that Emacs still will load built-in
>> org-mode in lisp/org/. I think I can't solve this problem essentially.
>> Because I can't load before Emacs built-in library. Oops.
>>
>
> Org doesn't load automatically.. it autoloads only if you open an Org file
> or call an org-loading function. After emacs -Q, if you do M-: (featurep
> 'org), you will get nil. So the user does get a change to set the load path
> as they want before any package gets loaded.
>
> That's way, I tweak the load-path in the :preface section[1] in the org
> use-package form. The load-path would be set exactly as I want before org
> gets (auto)loaded.
>
> [1]: https://github.com/kaushalmodi/.emacs.d/blob/
> master/setup-files/setup-org.el
>
>
> --
>
> Kaushal Modi
>

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